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ZH Only Trav

 

Tue, 06/15/2010 – 11:44 | 414671 trav7777

I agree.  I have been saying this for months here.  Real Bills Doctrine is coming back.

Debt as a fundamental premise is being discounted now to reflect a future of contraction.  Life is entering backwardation where promises to deliver in the future are worth less than real things now.  In the aggregate, real production will not grow to meet the coupon plus principal.  Therefore, you cannot lend.

http://www.zerohedge.com/article/uk-holdings-us-treasuries-go-exponential-foreigners-now-hold-396-trillion-american-debt

 

Tue, 06/15/2010 – 11:32 | 414628 trav7777

Really?  It’s 1946 again?  We’re again sitting atop the greatest oil reserves that the world has ever known, with 90% of them undepleted?

Oh no wait, we’re not…it’s 2010.

Besides, the compound interest function will destroy the money supply before any growth *could* bail us out even assuming we were not energy-supply constrained now, which we are.

 

~~~

Wed, 04/14/2010 – 11:51 | 300121 trav7777

Impossible.

The top 1% do not have $100T in wealth or whatever the aggregate debts are for all nations.

That’s my point; the money that was lent never existed.  There never was the capital.  It was leverage.

The top 1% *borrowed* the money to lend, exploiting rate arbitrage.  Trace the funds back to their source, the banks.  Only they have the power to create creditmoney like this.

This is, in fact, the problem…the bottom 99% is insolvent, therefore the top 1%, who are still ostensibly on the hook for their debts, are too.

Look at the banks…they were simultaneously OWED massive amounts yet still insolvent somehow.  If they were actually lending money/capital that they possessed, there is no way they could have been insolvent.  The point is that they borrowed and levered in order to lend and THIS is what blew them up, the imbalance between debts “owed” and the value of “assets” which were themselves chopped up slices of loans to others.

Banks didn’t just lend out their deposits then get run on.  They themselves borrowed massively from others to create leverage pyramids.  All of these roads trace back to the Fed as the bank of banks.

 

http://www.zerohedge.com/article/grice-what-difference-between-greece-and-rest-oecd-only-it-small-enough-be-bailed-out

 

 

Wed, 04/14/2010 – 11:58 | 300133 trav7777

Math is a sorry reason to have armageddon.

I keep trying to get people to understand that these are just numbers on paper.  The money lent was never possessed; it was created.  That is how we got price inflation out of it.

It’s how the MZM and other money metrics kept increasing; they kept creating money via credit.

Yet we see banks ostensibly creditors who are themselves insolvent.  Everyone lent to everyone else money that they didn’t possess and now they expect repayment.

And people are ready to go to war and have society actually collapse because of some shit on an accounting ledger?

We need to stand up and collectively REPUDIATE this system.  We can be like Bavarian Producers in the Weimar era and say take your jew confetti back to where you came from.

Real Bills Doctrine provides us a production-backed means of exchange, a real currency, and makes banks what banks are supposed to be.

The banks should not tell us that we have to give them our firstborn because they lent us money that the banker never had in the first place.  Fuck that.  There’s no loss to him except in his expectation of RENT.

If I pulled the shit the banks do, I would get arrested and jailed for counterfeiting and fraud.

Nevermind the Fed or the other CBs.  Look into the history of the BOE…they backed out whatever initial capital they put up in that bank within an instant.  Why?  Because they had “assets” in the form of sovereign loans, created by lending capital THEY NEVER HAD.  So, they backed out their REAL capital and left the loans on the books as assets.

The banks are assetless; that is the big elephant in the room.  The debt is backstopped by bullshit and smoke and mirrors.  It must be rejected, along with the entire CB debtmoney FRN system.  All of it.

This is actually what the Founders did and were about.

~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

Sun, 01/02/2011 – 16:02 | 842812 trav7777

why didn’t he just break it down and say “white people are jewhaters”?

The reality is that this group of “tight kinship” aka clan nepotism has gotten rich lending what they did not have.  Look at our banking system now…$50T of Z1 credit outstanding…does ANYONE believe that the banks who lent this mass of money ever really HAD $50T in capital to actually lend?

Debtmoney is a ponzi, and emerging recognition of that provokes the hostility.  Fractional lending at compound interest has gotten people lynched because it really IS earning via parasitism.

http://www.zerohedge.com/article/watch-niall-fergusons-lecture-empires-verge-chaos

Wed, 02/01/2012 – 12:52 | 2116689 trav7777

lol…it doesn’t matter!

Rates are trying to rise because the ENTIRE CREDIT EXPANSION SYSTEM is in de facto default right now!

The FUTURE is the counterparty to the present in such a system.  The future is of contraction.  Therefore, the future is a deadbeat, insolvent, in default.  People are trying to extract more interest as “coverage” but at the same time NOBODY is interesting in borrowing to PAY that interest!

The Fed is forced to pay the coupon required by the credit base.  All this does is dilute money as debt is TRYING to discount itself to reflect reality.

The truth is that they can set the price of debt as they see fit.  The real world cannot cause the growth that is interest owed on today.

Gold is rising for 2 reasons, the first is that its production peaked 10 years ago.  The second is that in recognition of the impending obsolescence of debt-based paper claims, there is an increasing trend toward grabbing something that physically exists.  The future is in backwardation.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/bill-gross-why-we-are-witnessing-death-abundance-and-why-gold-becoming-default-store-value

 

 

 

Wed, 03/14/2012 – 16:10 | 2255612 trav7777

sigh…ok, it’s clear that you people are too stupid to get this, so let me explain.

You have emotionally identified with your silver.  I don’t hate SILVER, I hate YOU.  Are we clear now?  You and your silver are not one and the same, ok?  Stop getting attached to your fkin possessions.

I hate silverbugz because you are a herd of lemming muppets listening to idiots and con artists.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/day-history-gas-prices-have-never-been-higher

trav7777 on Mako

 

Fri, 11/11/2011 – 20:44 | 1871334 trav7777

Mako wasn’t the only one.

He and I differed only in that I don’t see the effing apocalypse and madmax as a result.  the lizards have been doing this since their holy texts were written, always to outsiders.

There’s a lot of history people don’t know and the history of chosen participation in the basest vice trades, to a point of dominance of them, is but one aspect that has been whitewashed.  Carpetbagger interest lending to freed slaves was another source of income, as was the financing and trade in the slaves themselves.  If you repeat this history, you are marginalized and smeared.

However, these cycles run longer than human lifespans; there is no particular planning in them, just how to work with clan power to dominate any particular phase.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/turd-ferguson-inexorable-march-higher-precious-metals

 

 

 

Wed, 05/25/2011 – 22:45 | 1311604 trav7777

judaism is the clan religion of jews, the ethnicity.  Most of the jews do not follow the tenets of judaism.  Hell, look at all the raving homo jews out there like Dave Geffen or the guy who invented “racism” as a term.

The situation in media and finance does not break down along religious lines.

 

http://www.zerohedge.com/article/welcome-hyperinflation-hell-following-currency-devaluation-belarus-economy-implodes-sets-blu?page=1

 

 

Wed, 05/25/2011 – 17:40 | 1310519 trav7777

how many more countries are going to be busted out by this jew confetti?

States like Colombia are funny; the Spanish banks own the nation and charge the natives rent, essentially.

Now when Spain goes under a bigger fish will acquire their assets.  Like a big game of Monopoly.  All for PAPER.

Times like this you should thank your lucky stars you are in the FRN zone.  Our day will come but it’s fixing to be one of the last days.  In the meantime you can acquire vicarious shares of other people’s nations.

The entire system of debt is an attempt to get something for nothing.  This is the crux of why usury is historically reviled and usurers hated.

~~~~~~~~~~

 

Wed, 05/25/2011 – 22:25 | 1311517 trav7777

if the Fed permits deflation, the USG undergoes fiscal collapse.

IT IS AS SIMPLE AS THAT.  If the Fed won’t make “money” available, the Congress will DISSOLVE THEM.

 

 

Tue, 03/02/2010 – 16:43 | 251461 trav7777

This is an easy one.

Deflation kills the leveraged.

Who is more leveraged than banks?

The banks nearly all went tits up in 2008 during a relatively mild deflation.

Inflation has HELPED the banks…think about that.  Have the rich gotten richer?  Have the banks taken over more of the economy?  Think about it…since 1971.  This is the deflationist mantra, that creditors don’t want deflation.  What do they want, defaults?  We’ve had unabated inflation since 1913 and how have the elites and banks done?  Inflation is good for them.  They make far more money off of it than they lose in “dilution” of their lendings.  Lending is not how banks make money, they make it by BORROWING.

There isn’t a bank or government out there that can survive the type of deflation that tools like Douchinger predict.  The math of debt-based money makes deflation a self-reinforcing, implosive spiral.

http://www.zerohedge.com/article/february-2010-federal-tax-withholdings-plunge-multiyear-low

 

 

 

Wed, 03/31/2010 – 15:21 | 282036 trav7777

Yeah…this is the moneychanger clan, Bank of England racket.  Been goin on for centuries.

They lent the hell into the “emerging” economies, lending money they did not have, via “fractional reserve,” and now the economy taps out and they will deflate the ever-loving hell out of it.

In the process, they hope to get bailouts signed by the sovereigns that are bankrupted that force the citizens to pay high taxes, to receive few services, and to take a share of sovereign assets.  Classic rent-seeking.

This is what they did in Argentina.  Iceland.  Elsewhere just in THIS financial crisis.  It’s the Versailles Treaty model of economic slavery.  The BOE has done this so many times it’s not even funny.  The Founding Fathers spoke of this VERY tactic, and the proscription of colonial scrip and forcing into BOE debtmoney was the most significant precipitating cause of the Revolution.

The old imperial powers are still at it, except with their banks and paper this time around.

France and Germany will *insist* that Greece “pay its debts,” even if that means they extract the fkin organs from Grecians.  Nevermind that the major nations’ banks NEVER ACTUALLY HAD the money they lent out.  They created it from thin fucking air.

We are steaming fullspeed toward worldwide repudiation of debt and the banking system.  When this crashes, people will realize how the major European historical imperial powers stayed on top even after their armies disbanded – they had the banks and controlled the paper that was used as money.

http://www.zerohedge.com/article/piigs-claims-european-banks-15-trillion-france-most-hook-piigs-implosion

 

 

 

 

Mon, 01/04/2010 – 12:30 | 182016 trav777

The opposite is occuring…with tax incentives and all the other BS, we’re incentivizing them TO build houses.

No builder would be able to build a house right now at a profit without the support of the .gov to make the situation even worse.

For this growth ponzi to continue, we need even more people buying even more houses that they don’t live in to flip to even more people.  It’s obvious that this is a total clusterfuck but TPTB cannot let the situation work itself out.

There were too many levered vehicles in the credit pipeline, synthetic debt instruments and pyramided CDO leverage.  If they let prices normalize, they vaporize nearly all of the credit growth over the past 5 years or even longer perhaps.

http://www.zerohedge.com/article/year-3000-predicting-liability-side-feds-balance-sheet

 

 

Tue, 01/26/2010 – 15:09 | 206635 trav7777

There is a somewhat less sinister angle to the GS bailout.

AIG was, recall, an insurance company.  It has a variety of cash products and policies all over the world.  The BK code is written such that a CDS counterparty can move to seize collateral outside of the ability of a BK court to stay.

It may have been that GS was going to run and grab annuities, whole life policies, etc., and the only recourse was to pay them off.  In fact, AIG has significant business too in China and a worldwide cash grab of AIG’s assets by its CDS counterparties would have been politically “intractable.”

Tue, 01/26/2010 – 15:43 | 206671 Assetman

The Treasury could have struck a deal to spinoff AIGFP from the rest of the company BEFORE the USG got it’s 80% ownership in order to quarantine the damage and negotiate the haircuts on the bad CDO’s.

I’m sure a team of of investment bankers (those few who were left) would have loved to craft a last minute deal.

But no… an ex-Goldmanite and Treasury Secretary at the time couldn’t stand for that at all.

I’m not discounting your angle, though, because it certainly is plausible.

Tue, 01/26/2010 – 16:28 | 206711 trav7777

Yes. That is absolutely what the Treasury could have done, but they should have done lots of things, none of which they did do.

GS has infested the Treasury with legions of people beholden to it and its interests.  That’s the fundamental problem.  The freakin SecTreas at the time was their gd’d former CEO…how much more of a conflict of interest could be had?

AIGFP should have been sequestered under emergency power and GS brought to collapse.  Or the insurance regulators should have stepped in and shut AIG down and within their powers to have sequestered the insurance assets of the company or declared AIG to be in violation of something and resolved to isolate AIGFP from the rest of the company.

I and a lot of people like me KNEW GS was in up to its freaking eyeballs and we were short it…it was days from collapse like all the other IBs.

People should read through that Davis CDO and take a look and imagine how many hours went into generating that bullshit.  The freaking assets contained in that CDO didn’t even NEED to be real!  There was a provision permitting freaking synthetic debt, which is effectively tranches of CDS payment streams.  IOW, debt and payments based upon nothing.

These mfers spent their time engineering mountains of bullshit and we act like they are God’s gift to the world.  We don’t need investment banking; it’s a goddamned scam.

Shut them ALL down.  It’s either going to end up being an Andrew Jackson or a Hitler that rids the nation of these crooks. The choice is ours in which direction this goes.

Tue, 01/26/2010 – 18:58 | 206900 Ruth

Most certainly agree traveler, nice number by the way.

http://www.zerohedge.com/article/aig-collusion-epic-proportions-between-goldmans-us-treasury-branch-and-goldman-sachs-proper

 

 

 

 

 

Wed, 05/12/2010 – 21:14 | 348097 trav7777

McCulley is a moron:  what happened was not good.

The Fed made instruments that were literally WORTHLESS by design and made them into par instruments.

The error was in ever allowing dogshit to be sold as AAA paper.  The bankers found a way to run a ponzi scheme; pure and simple.  And the Fed just monetized all the worthless claims.

The shadow banking system DESERVED a run.  Any time a banking system is shown to be KITING or lending what they do not have or let’s say you catch the banker out BLOWING the deposits on hookers & coke, you HAVE to run the bank!

The bankers and all the firms responsible should have been imprisoned, broken up, hanged…and yes that includes Bob Jewbin and all the rest of these incestuous crooks.  All the way to the top of the Treasury and Federal Reserve…hanged.

 

 

 

 

 

Fri, 04/30/2010 – 10:52 | 325452 trav7777

At what point does mass Point of Recognition arrive that the oil peak means that the Age of Growth is over?

The future cannot repay today’s debts.

I have to believe that somebody besides a few of us was perspicacious enough to see this…and yet this debtmoney is still afforded confidence and respect.  So, why not just print it?  I think mass inertia and ostrich behavior should carry us through…

 

 

 

Thu, 06/03/2010 – 23:32 | 393666 trav7777

I dunno why you’d want to hang Austrians, Steve.

Nothing any banker can do will reverse an oil well once it passes peak.  This immutable fact is wise for everyone to make peace with.  The laws of physics rule.  Mother Nature bats last and she can read your pitches like she hacked into your brain.  They’re going into the cheap seats and there’s nothing you can do to stop it.

Your hard dollar concept is an interesting theory with one inescapable conclusion:  as oil supply declines, the amount of dollars in supply must also decrease for the hardness to be maintained.

This is at DIRECT odds with the funding needs of heavily indebted entities such as the US Gov’t.  Deflation will destroy them.

Debt, as an institution, has reached an inflection point.  Life is now in backwardation, real things now trade for a higher real price than promises of the same things in the future because the future holds less things.

At some time in the not-too-distant future, a collective Point of Recognition will be achieved and debt-based monetary systems will spontaneously collapse.  This will be the hyperinflationary event, essentially a repudiation of all confidence.  The government may very well need from a balance-sheet perspective to do what FDR did, and effect a brute force devaluation, revaluing the oil peg as it did the gold peg in 1933.  It will be of no avail.

Nothing can stop oil supply from declining once Peak is hit.  The only way to restart growth is for a new, growable energy supply to be discovered, such as sustainable fusion.

But for those gloom & doomers planning to barter ammo, just remember, life goes on.  Find some meaning within yourselves that does not revolve around money.  Like Christianity or not, Paul was correct.

~~~~~~~~

Thu, 06/03/2010 – 23:02 | 393590 trav7777

If you believe that then you don’t understand the nature of debt.

Debt has an interest component.  If the money supply does *not* expand, then interest claims begin to exponentially become a larger and larger share of the eating away of the aggregate monetary base.

Without *additional* lending at beyond the prevailing interest rate, the money supply death spirals.

It would behoove EVERYBODY to understand what we who speak of this mean by it.  ONLY growth in credit can prolong the system and it is *required*, not optional.

Austerity means a monetary collapse.  Via deflation.

The ONLY way to stop this if credit cannot or will not grow is via brute force devaluation.  In the end, the deflation and inflation arguments end in the SAME PLACE.

That is why I do not understand why people fight over this.

http://www.zerohedge.com/article/rethinking-inflation-vs-deflation-debate

 

 

 

, 09/16/2010 – 23:07 | 587092 trav7777

This article is wrong on a variety of levels.

Volcker didn’t kill inflation.  The FFR followed the effective interest rate expected on the dollar.  The dollar was facing a run after the close of the gold window and US Peak oil in 1970.

It really was as simple as that.  We were facing suddenly massive trade deficits placing pressure on our currency.  Pretty simple stuff.

The run on the dollar was quelled via the petrodollar racket.  Effectively, we hardened the dollar using oil.  Dollar growth matched oil growth.  Prior to US Peak, our dollar was effectively hardened by gold, but also by growing domestic production.

After US Peak, it took us awhile to acquire vassal states such as KSA upon which we could pin the dollar.  Recall that Nixon was going to fucking invade the ME and occupy fields if the embargo had run on long enough.

There were a few factors which caused a run on the dollar, US peak, waning gold reserves, the closing of the gold window, and the 1973 embargo.  If we didn’t offer gold, you couldn’t buy oil, wtf was the dollar worth?  So we used imperial military power to harden the dollar back up.

The notion that Volcker had anything to do with this is absurd.  High interest rates are evidence of a run on a currency, and will cause *deflationary* collapse and ultimate currency worthlessness.

 

 

Sun, 07/11/2010 – 00:03 | 462747 trav7777

It gets even BETTER.

Go over to TF and watch the Douchingites BLEAT for “privatization”!  That means sell off public assets, roads, bridges, power plants, everything, to these SAME interests, who you let BORROW from the Fed at 0% to purchase public assets using kickbacks and banana republic bribing and back scratching.  This turns those with access to the Fed spigot into permanent RENTIER class plutocrats.  They can use their leverage as bondholders to translate paper wealth into real productive assets.  WTF does it matter what these assets are denominated in??  The money you pay into a power plant in terms of utility rates represents a fraction of YOUR productive work.

Then, jack up fees, rates, charges, everything, to squeeze every ounce of production out of the little serfs and put it into your own pockets, into cocaine for your hookers, into Mercedes automobiles for your spoiled brat children, and into more yachts and mansions.  You think all those fuckin Rothschild palaces all over the world built themselves??!  That was OFF THE BACKS of every taxpayer to every sovereign that ever “borrowed” fictitious capital from these vile bankers that they never actually had in the first place.

The Fed is ENABLING its member institutions to take eventual control of ALL public assets, all utilities, all infrastructure, under the guise of “austerity.”

Look around you, what did austerity mean to Argentina?  It meant fire sales of gas, oil, roads, cellphone towers, everything, to foreign corporations and private interests for which the politicians in Argentina were caught RED HANDED with bribes to work the deals.  What has it meant to Greece?  Fucking people are cheering for Greece to sell of its islands and nation to “repay” foreign bankers.  And if they don’t?  Who loses?  Oh yeah, all the little people in Germany and France who have their DEPOSITS in those scumbag banks.

Shakespeare was wrong – you have to first kill all the BANKERS.  This phenomenon is what these people DO.  It’s what they’re ABOUT.  It is the Shylock in ALL of them now expecting their pound of flesh.

At the end, money does not matter.  Dollars do not matter.  What matters is having you work yourself to the bone to keep silver spoons in their kids’ mouths and keep their mansions heated and cooled and keep their yachts running.

Carlos Slim doesn’t care what the “peso” is worth.  He earns a share of everyone’s usage of his cellphone infrastructure.  Money only allows him to translate that share into real things for his own enjoyment, real cars, real yachts, real pussies.  If the peso “falls,” he will raise prices and because HE controls the bridge, you either pay his price or else you go fuck yourself.

If private interests control the power plant…pay their price or sit in the fucking dark; it’s that simple.  Austerity will strip every bit of “public” or commonwealth ownership of the things WE ALL PAID tax and bond money to build away from our ownership.

~~~~~~~~~~

 

Sun, 07/11/2010 – 13:22 | 463191 trav7777

Bingo.  That’s exactly what it is.

It should stun people that Thomas Jefferson made this observation 250 years ago in his famous “inflation/deflation” quote.

What we are experiencing is NOT in any way new or novel.  The elites are using inflation to acquire claim tickets to our productive economy.  When inflation dies, they will use those tickets to acquire REAL assets.

How the fuck do people think that the Rothschilds became so powerful or that these elite families in S. America with European names came to own unimaginably vast tracts of productive land?

This shit is what the Founders were running from and why they phrased the Constitution the way they did, to try to prevent central banking, debtmoney, and this entire con.

There are people out there who like being victims.  They appear to like the abuse.  They’re afraid to be free.  It gives them moral comfort to suffer needlessly.  I cannot identify with them.  Many of these people are now saying “well, we need to repay our debts.”  Meaning “we” need to suffer more.

Go over to TF and see how they bleat about homeowners who walk, or people who don’t repay their CCs.  These people phrase a debt contract as tantamount to a moral obligation to repay.  Meanwhile the rich and businesses WALK the instant it makes pecuniary sense to do so, without remorse.  The rules that the little people teach their kids are DIFFERENT from those that the big people teach theirs.  You probably remember your granpappy speaking of paying debts as a badge of honor and a moral imperative.  That’s why he was fucking poor.  Across town in the penthouse, similar bedside chats were not occurring.  Those children were being taught that sociopathic use of you was their entitlement.  I have legacy rich friends who cannot even bring themselves to lift FIREWOOD to bring into their giant house to light a fire, much less help me lift a television.  This type of stuff is for OTHERS to do.

There are a few types of people in this world, some like to suffer and some like to see others suffer. There are a few of us who don’t want either.

http://www.zerohedge.com/article/financial-con-decade-explained-so-simply-even-congressman-will-get-it?page=2

 

 

 

Tue, 07/20/2010 – 15:51 | 479416 trav7777

There is no reason for any of this to happen.  Not a good one anyway.  It may come to pass, but I would rather see another genocide of the banker clan, good riddance.

Billions killed over math and a balance sheet?  Fuck that.

 

Sun, 10/31/2010 – 11:35 | 688895 trav7777

Our monetary system has been picking our pockets for a century.

This is the real scam.

People cannot see the forest for the trees.  When you let institutions or people earn interest on the issuance of money such that the mere presence of money means that someone is owed a vig, you have a system which is mathematically and morally bankrupt.

http://www.zerohedge.com/article/why-downside-feds-all-attempt-spike-shadow-monetary-velocity-45-trillion-drop-gdp

 

 

 

Wed, 11/17/2010 – 13:25 | 734554 MsCreant

 

Kunstler wants a world according to his design, and he does have some good ideas.  But his ethnicity is a CONSTANT filter to his ability to see the world correctly.

I hate your jew hating, you are too smart for it, it puzzles me. But on this, I think you are right.

Wed, 11/17/2010 – 14:04 | 734700 trav7777

Let’s talk about it then:  your basic assumption is incorrect.

I say what I say to provoke a reaction by the use of what some refer to as “hate facts.”  In fact, I am speaking the truth and I do so in a way as to provoke a pavlovian response in the audience.

Do me this favor:  review my statements of fact in the abstract.  If you cannot take issue with them, but you still feel uncomfortable reading them, then the problem is not with the facts, it is with you.

I will tell you that ANYONE should have a problem with a notoriously nepotistic and ethnocentric group having a stranglehold on the financial and media sectors.  Do you dispute this?

But, should I attach “jew” to this statement, suddenly, it’s a problem, isn’t it?  You’ve been conditioned…

(many other comments from trav777 on racism)

 

http://www.zerohedge.com/article/chris-martenson-and-james-howard-kunstler-explain-how-world-going-get-rounder-and-bigger-aga

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sat, 11/13/2010 – 12:07 | 724721 trav7777

You act as if the world is not full of their own fraudulent losses.

Everyone around here acts as if China is this utopia of freemarket and profit and that Europe is somehow prudent and conservative.  It’s all bullshit…all of them have blood all over their hands.

The SYSTEM requires private credit origination growth to fund industrial growth in the ROW.  The dollars flow through oil and back into bonds.

The notion by the EMs and Europe that a PERPETUAL trade surplus can be run is as wrong as the notion that deficits don’t matter.  We could always point to growth in the future as making today’s obligations not seem so onerous.  The future now, as I continue to repeat, holds CONTRACTION, not growth.

The entire SYSTEM of money is obsolete and a dangerous anachronism now.  But there is NO OTHER WAY for bankers and the banking clans to make free money unless they can parasite off the backs of growth.

I have no clue why people are surprised by what is occurring; Jefferson knew this system in the 1700s.  It is old.  Banks have PLENARY control over our money.  We cannot get it or use it without PAYING THEM INTEREST on it.

The reason why “credit” is called the lifeblood is because our system makes credit=money.

Gold and other real assets have an important future as this credit system collapses.  People will not be able to get credit which is essentially a promise of future production because nobody will respect promises of a growth future.  If credit continues to decline, in-existence assets with moneyness will end up the only “spendable” capital out there.

http://www.zerohedge.com/article/qe2-stealthy-90-billion-gifting-scheme-primary-dealers#comment-724721

 

 

01/17/2010 – 13:25 | 196617 trav7777

Your points are all logical, but I have to repeat my axiom:  deflation destroys leveraged players.

The USG is the most leveraged.  Therefore, deflation is an existential threat to them.  Nevermind every bank, also leveraged, and all the big boyz, leveraged too.  All the FIRE economy depends upon the inflation wave and they have the levers of power.

Deflation helps people with money in mattresses.  I can’t see their interests prevailing.

Deflation or inflation, the FRN is still a debtmoney-based instrument.  So long as the future seems to hold contraction, its “worth” is in peril.  The FRN’s very existence is at odds with reality right now.  I would not expect paper based on debt to come out of this with real worth because there simply is now no way to pay the interest.

IOW, we have to go to pure fiat at some point; our economy simply cannot back a production-based currency because we don’t have the production.  We cannot back it with debt or a promise to produce/pay more in the future because the future doesn’t hold more, it holds less.

Therefore, I conclude that paper, debt, etc., the “way things have been” for 400 years is what is facing the crisis in confidence.  Our ability to make good on the FRNs, electronic or real, faces discounting just as surely as a promissory note from a person who just lost their job and faces a balloon payment at the end of the month.

That’s how I see it.  Deflationists seem to think “the system” is not imperiled and I think that it clearly is for reasons I continue to articulate.  I don’t think a system of dependency upon a growth future can reconcile itself with a real future of contraction.

~~~~~

 

Sun, 01/17/2010 – 13:38 | 196632 trav7777

categorically WRONG.

Look at what the banks did during the 2008 deflation.

They went TITS UP.

Everything you think you know is based upon a very superficial understanding of who is a lender and who is a borrower.  The banks are BORROWERS, which is why deflation nearly killed all of them.

http://www.zerohedge.com/article/guest-post-stretch-farthest-point-known-thoughts-hyperinflation-event#comment-196617

 

 

 

 

Fri, 08/27/2010 – 11:04 | 548238 trav7777

This is just the camel’s nose of austerity.

see, rich tribers like Mort own a TON of claim tickets to the upcoming liquidation in the form of USTs.  They want them ALL PAID BACK.  Out of your kids’ organs if necessary.

Notice how they’ve shaped the public opinion toward “let’s slash and burn and suffer.”  We see this on ZH where there are people who are actually begging for mass suffering to come.

Austerity is the IMF’s prescription for looting via deflation.  DO NOT BE MISLED by it.

The solution is to ABANDON the debt model and repudiate the claim tickets of shylocks like Mort.  Look, what Rothschild figured out is that if he could start a money-as-debt racket, the math would inevitably bankrupt the sovereign and then he could own the whole fucking country.  That is the POINT of usury!  For fuck’s sake, recognize that.

The whole POINT of tribe carpetbaggers in the south was to lend to blacks for the PURPOSE of acquiring their entire years’ worth of sharecrop!  It’s a way to make your MONEY work so that you do not have to.  And the con is so insidious that you can make PRETEND money turn into real things WITHOUT work.  It is the way of the PARASITE.

Only the very intelligent understand the mathematical inevitability of usury.  The stupid simply see the rich getting richer without working while the poor work harder and harder and go backwards.  Institutional Usury lets money “make” money without work and it INEVITABLY bankrupts the poor and stupid…this is why it and its purveyors have been reviled as con artists throughout history.

Usury mathematically leads to bankruptcy and liquidation.  Once the machine of geometric compounding is set into motion, there is a very short window to get out, after which it CANNOT be stopped and will proceed to its final, foredestined outcome.

http://www.zerohedge.com/article/zuckerman-loses-it-releases-most-scathing-criticism-obama-yet-most-fiscally-irresponsible-go#comment-548238

 

 

 

 

Tue, 08/24/2010 – 16:29 | 541232 trav7777

This is superficial.

I’ve tried in many instances to explain synthetic debt so I’ll give it another crack.  The CDS sellers did not hang onto the coupon.  They securitized it.

This technique permitted net notional outstanding and credit to grow far in excess of what any real economy would have permitted.  It also goosed the shit out of GDP.

There were derivatives based upon equity tranches of CDS payment streams.  Nobody has any fucking clue where this paper trail runs, but these toxic shitpiles are out there all over the world, just waiting to implode if not liquified.  CDSs are like bonds in reverse, except without the capital.  They are ideal for synthesizing securitized debt instruments to maintain fee flow.  They’ve been a license for Wall Street to print fucking money.

Only idiots like AIG were stupid enough to not net out.  GS stands only in the middle of most of these things, having written the CDSs then tranched and sold off the payments, taking fees and a skim with them.  These mfers even tranched up tranches.  Pile a bunch of equity tranches into another CDO and call the supersenior of that CDO^2 AAA+.

This is what grew credit and how the banking titans got rich…by manufacturing demand for FRN product far beyond the organic demand, creating their own credit originations and skimming the flow of money across their derivatives desks.

When the music stopped, they all nearly died not because of real exposure but because too much of this shit was clogged up in their off-sheet SIVs.  None of them had stopped the manufacturing of debt and they were on-hook for liquidity events as a result of having to service product in the middle stages of manufacture.

Think of it like this…a drug dealer buys a lot of raw material for meth on credit.  His meth lab gets blown up or burns down.  He’s got a liquidity problem.  That’s literally what happened to Wall Street.  The end market froze completely and they still owed for the raw materials in their SIVs.

http://www.zerohedge.com/article/guest-post-true-national-debt#comment-541232

 

 

 

 

 

Tue, 09/14/2010 – 23:46 | 582473 trav7777

It’s important to distinguish between TRUE fiat systems and what we have, a credit system.

Our money is NOT fiat, ok?  It’s not.  Those who say that it is or has been are wrong.  Our money is backed up by future production, the ability to pay the interest with additional credit backstopped by future growth.  It’s as simple as that.

Debt-based money is not printed, it’s not fiat like tally sticks.

A true fiat system is subject to debasement, sure, but there are means by which people can weather that, via gold or land or cattle or pussies or oil, things which are real and have value independent of the currency denominator.

Tally sticks worked just fine as a PURE fiat money system for a HELL of a lot longer than the FRN has been around.  In fact, a fiat system properly managed generates NO inflation and is simple, elegant, and just.  The government issues currency then taxes it out of existence.  Obviously, this is suboptimal compared to Real Bills, but its longevity hinges upon “properly managed,” which true fiat systems HAVE actually been during some times.

Debt money requires growth because the interest owed has not been created at the time of creditmoney creation.  If nobody steps up to borrow at least as much as the coupon, the system begins to mathematically implode.  That is where we were in 2008.

I told Douchinger years ago that the “answer” to this deflation was for the CBs to forgive the loans, essentially printing money to forgive all the debts owed it.  ALL FRNs are by nature ultimately loans from the Federal Reserve.  The Fed is effectively as we speak printing the interest owed it on the outstanding monetary base.  This is all that is necessary to prevent a catastrophic deflationary spiral, but it will not remove the deflationary pressure in the aggregate money supply as existing loans’ principal balances are ultimately repaid.  This is why the Mishes out there still “see” deflation.  There IS deflation, but the math of preventing a spiral is virtually trivial.

Repayment extinguishes creditmoney.  The USG is currently the only entity that is continuing to borrow to prevent mass extinguishment.  This is why we should continue to expect national debt to exponentiate.  It has to, otherwise as FRNs are repaid and extinguished, there will be less “money” against existing production.

Now, as production in the aggregate declines, if the outstanding credit base does the same, we WILL see “deflation” but NO material effect on prices.  This is where I believe we are.  The precious FRN crowd has some bad news awaiting them, because as the numbers of things contracts concomitant to contraction in outstanding credit, this is a classic recipe for level prices even as it becomes harder to get money.  What this will look like is severe or even hyper realworld “inflation” against *deflationary* monetarist metrics.  It’s important to think about this a few times to really get it.

Money becomes more “scarce” even as production contracts at the same time.  Money vs goods supply/demand law dictates in that case level price but money becomes harder to get.  This will have all the feel of severe inflation (because of lack of access to money, i.e., income) but the price tags will indicate no material change.  Everything just ends up priced out of your reach.  Again, just like all the states around the world that have suffered through collapses, Brazil, Argentina, Mexico.  Shit is expensive there in a real world sense.

This is precisely why there is still an argument over outcome.  The Fed’s printing of the interest plus the government’s replacement of lost organic credit demand will create a monetarist inflationary bias.  But the REAL trends are of contraction both in production and in credit.  Any hyperinflationary tipping point will occur only at collective Point of Recognition that debt has lost its moneyness.

~~~~

 

Wed, 09/15/2010 – 08:16 | 582852 trav7777

yes, absolutely.

Debtmoney has an interest component.  This is the amount owed but the amount created at any given time is always necessarily less.  This is because banks only lend principal.  It is up to you to come up with the interest.

The system then requires someone else to borrow *at least* the interest you owe.  Then, someone else must borrow their interest.  This is because there is only ONE way for money to come into existence, and that is for it to be borrowed.

Think about 3 people and a banker with a goon forcing everyone to use his paper.  He lends A $100 for one year at 5%.  It’s clear $105 is owed but only $100 exists.  B or C must themselves borrow at least $5 by EOY1 and transfer it to A or else A is in default.  Supposing B borrows under the same terms as A and A repays in full, $200 were created, but $210 were owed.  Once A extinguishes his debt, the imbalance is now even worse.  B owes $105 at EOY2, but A has taken $105 out of the monetary base, leaving $95 against $105 owed.

There is NO ROOM in a debt money system for repayment or contraction in this manner.  Debt MUST be backed by growth because that’s the only thing which will prompt C, D, E, F, and so forth, to themselves borrow to feed the pyramid.  One must create more than “$100” worth of goods in order to sell backstop the interest, and others must borrow from banker to buy this.  Ergo, growth and consumption.

Usury creates, via mathematics, the ingredients for default.  If A cannot repay and rolls the loan, the compounding interest eventually consumes him and the money supply.  It’s really very basic math.

~~~

 

Wed, 09/15/2010 – 08:30 | 582865 trav7777

You’re factually wrong.

What do you suppose Quantitative Easing represents?  The Fed is printing the coupon on the money supply.  Otherwise, the compound interest function will consume it.  This is your deflation spiral.

Saying that the Fed does not have the “power” to forgive loans is foolish; they’ve been using that power since March 09.

Second point:  your statement about the Fed’s role being to protect banks is superficial.  The Fed is in actuality a superbank; its concern is not necessarily its member banks but the “system.”  Printing the coupon does not hurt its members; it helps them.  The banks still “see” real money coming in.  The Fed is “buying” their shitty assets.  The banks were the most highly levered and the ones most susceptible to deflation.

I know what I am saying bends ears because most people IMPROPERLY conceive of banks as lenders holding paper.  In reality, they simply do not do that anymore.  Banks don’t suffer from inflation, they profit by it.  GROWTH is what makes them money, ok?  The notion that deflation helps banks is very clearly empirically wrong, given how many of them went under in 2008.

I never claimed Congress would “give away” money to repay ALL loans.  What the Fed is doing is paying the INTEREST owed, which without creation would serve as an exponentiating parasitic deflationary drag on the money supply.  They realized in 2009 what I realized ab initio.

At the same time, the USG has taken over the mantle of attempting to ensure that the aggregate monetary base does not contract; yields are so low that future compound interest represents less scalar quantity.

Defeating deflation may cause other consequences, sure…but what are the consequences of “allowing” deflation?  The major deflationists bleat nonstop about the effects of deflationary collapse…including precious FRNs, massive liquidations, starvation, war, pestilence, famine, death.  Don’t be so married to your thesis that you start claiming these are a superior outcome.

My point is only to discuss the mathematics and why the Fed is doing what it is doing, not to attempt to dismiss the negative side effects.  There is no consequence-free outcome to a global net energy peak within an entrenched growth paradigm.

 

http://www.zerohedge.com/article/guest-post-curse-fiat-money#comment-582473

 

 

 

 

 

Fri, 06/25/2010 – 09:51 | 433476 trav7777

Maybe I need a louder avatar to get people to pay attention.

They have to QE the entire credit base.  Otherwise, the math says that the compound interest function will consume the money supply in a cascading sequence of defaults.

They have no choice, as a matter of math, but to print the interest at least.  The marginal utility of debt has gone to 0.

http://www.zerohedge.com/article/evans-pritchard-announces-fed-contemplating-5-trillion-qe-expansion#comment-433476

 

 

 

 

Wed, 10/06/2010 – 13:31 | 629748 trav7777

Are most of you STUPID?

Fekete is not calling for a return to the fuckin gold standard, he is calling for a return to Real Bills Doctrine.

the VAST MAJORITY of what was “money” prior to 1914 was in the form of REAL BILLS, which were PRODUCTION backed.

Only some of the eventual liquidation of them was via gold because that was what the end consumer had saved!

Real Bills can be extinguished by any real asset; it does not have to be gold.  You could extinguish a bill via another bill, so long as BOTH eventually mature and BOTH are backed by some real thing.  Gold was merely a convenience.

The allies after WW1 did not want Germany repaying out of production; they wanted to lend Germany money to repay, creating the compound interest debt trap.  The allies had the Rothschild Bank eager to get another host State.

The idiots who claim that the 65′ cube of gold could not “run world commerce” are fools who do not understand RBD.  A FAR smaller cube ran it less than 100 years ago, and the energy supply wave that coal and oil brought had begun 60+ years prior to the advent of global central banking on debtmoney.

Look, the Fed Act was a TAKEOVER.  Yet here we have people who BLEAT about the criminality of the Fed and yet defend the institutions of debtmoney and central banking.  Banks are supposed to be in the business of discounting and clearing, and lending their OWN capital for productive return.

Wed, 10/06/2010 – 13:34 | 629751 johngaltfla

One more time. It isn’t happening. Shit in one hand, wish in the other and get back to me. The Central banksters partnered with the political elites to see to that. This is a non-starter.

 

Next……

Wed, 10/06/2010 – 13:45 | 629782 trav7777

oh it will.

Maybe not in our lifetime, but the collapse of debtmoney is inevitable.  Always has happened.

Read the history books; sometimes these collapses take decades.  We’re in the middle of what our greatgrandchildren will spend a paragraph reading about.

The elites don’t mean shit and they don’t amount to shit.  They cannot control anything forever.  The books are rife with sets of elites that got replaced by other elites, entire banking clans led off to concentration camps and whatnot.

They cannot legislate VALUE nor can they adequately corral the whimsy of confidence.  The oil production curve will shit all over them and all of their elite efforts.

~~~~~

 

Wed, 10/06/2010 – 13:41 | 629768 trav7777

Price???  Idiot.

The MARKET fixes the ratio of oz of gold to buckets of coal to bushels of wheat to sides of beef and even to pussies.

Bills circulate backed by real production.

What this causes is a destruction of the ability of bankers to MAKE money (acquire a SHARE of REAL PRODUCTION) via their monopoly on the issuance of money as DEBT.

You understand the primary difference between RBD and central banking, don’t you?  In one, the bills self-create and self-liquidate as a function of the production cycle.  In the other, bankers LEND at INTEREST to one party who pays another.  In the end, THOSE debts extinguish when the banker gets HIS SHARE of whatever real production that INTEREST denominates.

Bank monopoly on MONEY creates free shit for bankers.  I say, let them issue their own scrip against their own assets at interest, see who fucking wants it.  Under RBD, people always had the option to PRODUCE or to borrow.  Banks held real assets that they lent out and that too circulated as money.

The panics came because of repeated malfeasance by BANKERS, and the domination of this profession by one particular set of cousins is the reason the clan has been repeatedly run out of entire countries throughout history.  Bankers have been cheaters since day one, when they figured out they could con people with fractional reserve.

Fractional reserve lets bankers EARN INTEREST on capital they DO NOT EVEN POSSESS.  This is why banking is inequitable and a societal EVIL.  Bankers and banking should be banned as contrary to public policy.  Let banking become lend your REAL capital, fine.  But every single financial panic, bubble, collapse, all of it, is traceable directly to the feet of bankers who committed fraud.

http://www.zerohedge.com/article/antal-fekete-why-gold-standard-must-be-rehabilitated#comment-629748

 

 

 

 

 

Wed, 03/17/2010 – 10:25 | 268251 trav7777

CDS are critical.  People don’t understand them.

They are not insurance policies, they are the foundation of synthetic debt

http://www.zerohedge.com/article/albert-edwards-predicts-deflation-followed-double-digit-inflation-governments-opt-default-an#comment-268251

 

 

 

 

 

Thu, 07/22/2010 – 12:50 | 483816 trav7777

Bank of England founded 1694.  Massive global bubble ensues, unprecedented, within 20 years.

And we are supposed to believe that they just got it RIGHT this time?  ROTFL.

This shit is what the founders of this country were FLEEING from.  The depradations of the banker clan and the system it brought.

http://www.zerohedge.com/article/john-taylors-midsummer-night%E2%80%99s-dream#comment-483816

 

 

 

 

Thu, 07/29/2010 – 17:25 | 495017 trav7777

The average USian is also a decent person.  The Money Tribe that runs the financial systems in both nations is the problem.  Both of these States saw the largest exodus from Europe during the War of clan members, consequently it is no accident that since then, both have had increasingly aggressive and militaristic foreign policies.

The tribe has had a banking stranglehold on Britain since 1700, and has lent the sovereign balls-deep into debt.  That type of financial posture makes the sovereign increasingly beholden and presents a tremendous amount of policy-shaping clout to the debtholders.

http://www.zerohedge.com/article/moodys-puts-icelands-baa3-rating-outlook-negative-next-stop-junk-island-nation-continues-giv#comment-495017

 

 

 

Sun, 01/17/2010 – 13:38 | 196632 trav7777

categorically WRONG.

Look at what the banks did during the 2008 deflation.

They went TITS UP.

Everything you think you know is based upon a very superficial understanding of who is a lender and who is a borrower.  The banks are BORROWERS, which is why deflation nearly killed all of them.

~~~~~

Your points are all logical, but I have to repeat my axiom:  deflation destroys leveraged players.

The USG is the most leveraged.  Therefore, deflation is an existential threat to them.  Nevermind every bank, also leveraged, and all the big boyz, leveraged too.  All the FIRE economy depends upon the inflation wave and they have the levers of power.

Deflation helps people with money in mattresses.  I can’t see their interests prevailing.

Deflation or inflation, the FRN is still a debtmoney-based instrument.  So long as the future seems to hold contraction, its “worth” is in peril.  The FRN’s very existence is at odds with reality right now.  I would not expect paper based on debt to come out of this with real worth because there simply is now no way to pay the interest.

IOW, we have to go to pure fiat at some point; our economy simply cannot back a production-based currency because we don’t have the production.  We cannot back it with debt or a promise to produce/pay more in the future because the future doesn’t hold more, it holds less.

Therefore, I conclude that paper, debt, etc., the “way things have been” for 400 years is what is facing the crisis in confidence.  Our ability to make good on the FRNs, electronic or real, faces discounting just as surely as a promissory note from a person who just lost their job and faces a balloon payment at the end of the month.

That’s how I see it.  Deflationists seem to think “the system” is not imperiled and I think that it clearly is for reasons I continue to articulate.  I don’t think a system of dependency upon a growth future can reconcile itself with a real future of contraction.

http://www.zerohedge.com/article/guest-post-stretch-farthest-point-known-thoughts-hyperinflation-event#comment-196632

 

 

 

 

Sat, 07/31/2010 – 23:44 | 498331 trav7777

I don’t see any cause for confusion.  The Fed originally lent against the collateral that they subsequently BOUGHT in QE1.

If QE2 comes, they will buy government debt, which is what is currently transpiring.  The Fed WILL manage the USD lower and they CAN outrun the deflation in credit demand.

Think about it…those who talk about the decrease in Z1 or consumer credit since 2007, what’s the amount?  Around TARP or QE1 figures.  The Fed IS QEing exactly enough to offset the collapse.  They are being diligent not to upset the DXY apple cart too much, as ALL other CBs are engaged in the same type of operations.

The trends in consolidation of power have been in place for some time…all the current UST trend does is pave the next stretch of road.  Until/unless the USD is legitimately abandoned – hyperinflationary event – this will continue.  The gov’t will continue to grow.  Exponential math of debt compounding guarantees it.

http://www.zerohedge.com/article/discount-window-borrowings-plunge-just-11-million-lowest-2007-and-other-observations-future-#comment-498331

 

 

 

 

Wed, 08/18/2010 – 17:34 | 529134 trav7777

100% right.

They will take the country and rent it back to the people who live there.  Seen this time and time again in S. America.

Default and return with a production-backed currency.

Currency scarcity is an ILLUSION created by bankers who LENT you your money at interest!  The system at NO POINT contains enough money to pay all oustanding claims against it (lending money creates only the principal which can extinguish; it does not create sufficient money to extinguish even simple interest)!  Deflation if credit stops growing is INEVITABLE as a mathematical certainty.

At that point, you get the liquidation BY bankers to take all the interest you cannot pay.  The banks created the money lent to Greece out of THIN AIR, not out of REAL capital.

http://www.zerohedge.com/article/greek-bonds-slump-austerity-backfires-country-enters-death-spiral-and-violent-end-game-appro#comment-529134

 

 

 

 

Fri, 08/20/2010 – 11:28 | 532903 trav7777

Yields are in secular decline because demand for money has decreased.  Interest rates are the price of money.

the Fed is probably distorting the curve with their OMOs, but they hope to get some activity by the salivating would-be speculator knife-catchers out there.

Already people are abuzz with talk of how “great” a time it is to buy, what with houses “so cheap” and rates so low.  The Fed’s hope is that credit demand will pick up and then rates can normalize.  What we have here is a loss-leader teaser sale on credit.  One that the .gov is gorging itself on.

Just imagine what would happen after the gov has stuffed itself to the gills with cheap credit and then rates were to go up.  It’d be game over immediately.

http://www.zerohedge.com/article/double-top-formation-suggests-22-or-lower-yields-10-year-28-30#comment-532903

 

 

 

 

Dude…let’s take a step back and look at this.  Deflationists seem to miss the forest for the trees.

The USG is the most heavily indebted entity on the planet.  How would THEY be able to tolerate deflation?  It’d kill them as surely as it nearly killed every levered player in 2008.

The USG can incontrovertibly not repay ITS debts.  How the hell can the FRN maintain worth in the face of that?  I understand that the “math” says that the FRN becomes more worthful as deflation sets in, but this simply defies any common sense or intelligence, because the FRN is the note of a bankrupt sovereign and a bankrupt central bank.  Only in bizarro world can that become more worthful.

Eventually as deflation continues to grind, confidence in the FRN will evaporate.  Military or not.  Nukes or not.  Reserve currency or not.  And then it is all over in a heartbeat.

Is that TODAY?  No.  Obviously not.  Is it coming?  Of course, just as surely as a Pound Sterling is a fraction of a pound now (11 pounds to the ozt of Ag) despite the UK having suffered “deflation” in the 1930s and god remembers how many wars and the South Seas bubble and all that shit along the way.

The Pound’s march toward ever-smaller fractions of an ACTUAL pound of sterling silver has been RELENTLESS.  So shall it be with the dollar.  By hook or by crook man.

Study freakin history.  Deflation precedes devaluation as surely as night follows day.  It is the ONLY way to make the math work.  I marvel at precious dollar FRNbugs, I really do, thinking that this time will be different from every other time in history and the FRN will simply live forever.  It won’t.

So, you can either prepare now for that or try to be a vulture and pick up wallets and cellphones and watches DURING the panic stampede out of the burning nightclub.  FRNbugs must fancy that there is some exit that the rest of the patrons don’t know about, or that they are fireproof, or Batman.

~~~

 

What was so bad about Hitler compared to all the other leaders back then?  He didn’t do anything the rest of them wouldn’t and didn’t do.  Germany wanted rid of their banking clan and all their cousins.  Had Ben Gurion not been interested in making a political play for international recognition, they all would have moved to palestine.

Now, it turns out that Germany has a saner fiscal posture and policy, is not a warmongering imperial nation, they’ve gotten back to essentially protestant values of work and community.  They are one of the pillars of stability now in the world.  Nations with large tribe contingents are still warmongering and running confetti ponzis.

I mean, how many Germans did WE kill?  How many did the Soviets?  It was bad to be a polish woman during any part of this war, and the Soviets invaded, occupied and pillaged most of eastern europe for 40 years after the war.  Looking at the relative carnage, Hitler just doesn’t make the grade as far as psychopathic dictators go, not compared to some of his contemporaries and many others throughout history.

~~~~

 

JFC, you are ALL IDIOTS.

The money does not get destroyed.

The money already paid for the house and paid the builders and got redeposited elsewhere.  What got destroyed was the value of the debt obligation in real assets.

THAT is inflation, actually.  Debt loses its moneyness that way.  Defaulted debts stop fetching as many real things as they used to.

Everyone who doesn’t understand the mechanics of monetary creation and even what inflation or deflation are should STFU, seriously.

That includes Mako, who speaks as if monetarism is an axiom.  IT’S NOT.  in fact, the QTM is the most ridiculous piece of rubbish in history.

~~

 

gosh, this is just BAD.

Don’t equate money and debt if you don’t mean to.

A defaulted debt is worth less than a non-defaulted one.

The ONLY way for money to be destroyed is for loans to be repaid.  THAT is what is occurring, a decrease in system leverage, or debt outstanding.

Interest cannibalizes the money supply and destroys money, default does not.  WTF does it matter if the fucking bank’s asset sheet goes to 0 when they conjured the money in the first place?

In fact, what you end up with is UNBACKED NOTES in circulation, whereas they were formerly backed by a payment stream derived from real work or production.

For the life of me I do not understand why you guys see cascading default as deflationary.  It’s not, it never has been.  Systemic default IS hyperinflation.

FRNs are only useful for repaying debts denominated in them, of which every single FRN came into existence as a result of.  If a debt security no longer commands FRNs, it has no worth.  you sure as shit ain’t gonna get someone to trade gold for it.

This is precisely WHY we are seeing what appear to be BOTH inflation and deflation at the SAME TIME.  WTF, do I have to write a treatise on this shit?

The bottom line is that mainstream economics, DOUCHINGER AND MISH too, are WRONG.  They do not understand the fundamental nature of debt, the fiat notes conjured as a result of debt, and least of all how money is destroyed.

Fuck, if you can’t get basic accounting right, and what is a liability and what is an asset, then how can you be expected to understand larger concepts?

If a bank lends $100, they have a note saying “IOU $100.”  The borrower has $100.  There is not $200 in the system.  There is $100.  If the note is defaulted upon, the value of DEBT goes to 0.  Insofar as money and debt are fungible, there are concomitant deflationary effects.  But as this proceeds to a systemic level, debt starts to lose moneyness.  When this occurs, the notes BASED on the debt whose purpose and existence depend upon the debt, begin to lose theirs too.

http://www.zerohedge.com/article/guest-post-how-hyperinflation-will-happen?page=5

 

 

 

 

Fri, 09/17/2010 – 20:44 | 588917 trav7777

This is what I forecast:  gov’t takes up the mantle of credit growth.

The system is the master; all must serve it.  Credit must grow or else SHTF.  I told Douchinger too; if you do not borrow, they will borrow on your behalf.

http://www.zerohedge.com/article/household-net-worth-plunges-most-q4-2008-government-borrowing-surges#comment-588917

 

 

 

Tue, 10/05/2010 – 15:50 | 627056 trav7777

I want to focus on one of your statements, “the system is insolvent.”

A system of debt-based money requiring aggregate growth to pay today’s interest in the future is by definition insolvent as soon as the future holds contraction.  That is where we are.

The entire INSTITUTION is insolvent.

http://www.zerohedge.com/article/chicagos-charles-evans-joins-call-qe2-spot-gold-passes-1340-barrier#comment-627056

 

 

Wed, 10/06/2010 – 13:41 | 629768 trav7777

Price???  Idiot.

The MARKET fixes the ratio of oz of gold to buckets of coal to bushels of wheat to sides of beef and even to pussies.

Bills circulate backed by real production.

What this causes is a destruction of the ability of bankers to MAKE money (acquire a SHARE of REAL PRODUCTION) via their monopoly on the issuance of money as DEBT.

You understand the primary difference between RBD and central banking, don’t you?  In one, the bills self-create and self-liquidate as a function of the production cycle.  In the other, bankers LEND at INTEREST to one party who pays another.  In the end, THOSE debts extinguish when the banker gets HIS SHARE of whatever real production that INTEREST denominates.

Bank monopoly on MONEY creates free shit for bankers.  I say, let them issue their own scrip against their own assets at interest, see who fucking wants it.  Under RBD, people always had the option to PRODUCE or to borrow.  Banks held real assets that they lent out and that too circulated as money.

The panics came because of repeated malfeasance by BANKERS, and the domination of this profession by one particular set of cousins is the reason the clan has been repeatedly run out of entire countries throughout history.  Bankers have been cheaters since day one, when they figured out they could con people with fractional reserve.

Fractional reserve lets bankers EARN INTEREST on capital they DO NOT EVEN POSSESS.  This is why banking is inequitable and a societal EVIL.  Bankers and banking should be banned as contrary to public policy.  Let banking become lend your REAL capital, fine.  But every single financial panic, bubble, collapse, all of it, is traceable directly to the feet of bankers who committed fraud.

http://www.zerohedge.com/article/antal-fekete-why-gold-standard-must-be-rehabilitated#comment-629768

 

 

Fri, 09/17/2010 – 20:44 | 588917 trav7777

This is what I forecast:  gov’t takes up the mantle of credit growth.

The system is the master; all must serve it.  Credit must grow or else SHTF.  I told Douchinger too; if you do not borrow, they will borrow on your behalf.

http://www.zerohedge.com/article/household-net-worth-plunges-most-q4-2008-government-borrowing-surges#comment-588917

 

 

Mon, 10/11/2010 – 22:02 | 642280 trav7777

I’ll take this one up, because i believe you are in clear error about most of your suppositions.

The elites are the most highly-levered.  They have the most to gain by inflation.  They will have access to credit and will accumulate productive assets.

Secondly, the government itself will default in the case of deflation; the system of debtmoney makes this a mathematical inevitability.

In fact, hyperinflations have occurred all over the globe, in nations that have had even more entrenched elites than we.  Did Argentine elite benefit?  Yes.  Did Brazilian?  Absolutely.

The true elite have political connections and will be ahead of any hyperinflation.  Think about it.  If they get tipped off, they can position into asset classes which preserve value then scoop up everything with hard currency during the devaluation.

Austerity comes AFTER the currency collapses; it always does.  That is when the claim tickets get paid.  For the government to continue to function after such an event, they are “forced” to sell national assets and implement crushing austerity going forward.  Why?  Because their currency now lacks real purchasing power.  They can no longer bargain and trade with paper.

You appear to have GROSS misconceptions about how hyperinflation works, and you would be wise to study its occurrences in other nations before talking about “ordinary people” somehow buying their houses for lower real value.  That won’t happen; it never has and never will.

Ordinary people are going to be crushed by rising REAL cost of food, gasoline, power, etc.  They will be forced into effective default irrespective of the nominal value of their currency.

This type of hyperinflation works for the elites because only THEY can command a rising income!  The effect will be a reduction in living standard for all those further down the trough.

Hell, man, look at 1933…did the US elite suffer in FDR’s devaluation?  Hell no.  The Federal Reserve had all their gold already.  Those with political cover were unharmed by it.  What BETTER way to destroy the system than by rendering the value of the asset class MOST owned by the little people, cash, worthless?

http://www.zerohedge.com/article/guest-post-bank-shot#comment-642280

 

 

Mon, 10/18/2010 – 23:09 | 660280 trav7777

Who gives a shit??

The CENTER can NO LONGER HOLD.

It’s either the fuckin bitch ass world ACCEPTS the collapse of the US consumer and accedes to a normalization of trade flows or they FUCK OFF.

We CANNOT repay the debts, do they fucking GET THIS?  We also CANNOT continue to suffer their mercantilist ponzi currency bullshit.  If we CANNOT repay the debts, it is sure as shit not time to rack up more.  The entire EM world is developing on the back of debt they bitch about our not paying but they bitch even worse if we won’t borrow it.

If we STOP the debts, their stupid debtbubble economies collapse.  If we debase, they whine about that too.  The world is full of bitches.

The specific INTENT of the mercantilist ponzis of Japan and China was to take our production capacity.  Ok, DONE.  Now what?  We can no longer produce enough to pay for the goddamned goods and neither of these two stupid idiot nations wishes to let US actually sell anything in THEIR markets.

Brazil, China, India, ALL REFUSE to allow trade flows to normalize.  So, screw the whole lot of them.

~~~

Tue, 10/19/2010 – 08:02 | 660715 trav7777

BRICs will find out how soft real demand is for their shit without the debt inflation bubble from the dollar regime.

The truth is that no ruler and no banker wants sound money.  I expect war by 2015.

http://www.zerohedge.com/article/fx-wars-escalate-brazil-cancels-participation-upcoming-g20-meeting#comment-660280

 

 

Thu, 10/21/2010 – 08:51 | 666389 trav7777

I wrote several lengthy pieces on synthetic debt over on TF back in 2008.

Synthetic debt became the only way to drive credit growth; a CDS is kind of like a reverse bond except with no initial capital.

http://www.zerohedge.com/article/fannie-freddie-pursue-putbacks-subpoena-jpmorgan-among-others-seeking-loan-level-detail#comment-666389

 

Fri, 08/12/2011 – 20:20 | 1556009 trav7777

deeper than that:  at a basic level, you neither lend nor borrow at 2% when 1% is the best ROI you can achieve.

This is where we are.  I wrote extensively on this and the principles of synthetic debt on TF back in 07/08.  People think CDSs were “reckless” wagers; they weren’t.  They were the only thing forwarding growth of the credit base once the real economy achieved an inflection point.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/charting-wtf-economy#comment-1556009

 

 

Wed, 12/09/2009 – 14:30 | 158076 trav777

not exactly…CDSs were an integral component of synthetic CDOs.

The way this worked was that the originator of a CDS receives payment streams, just like a bondholder would.  The enterprising Wall Street wizards decided that they should tranche these streams up and sell those products off as synthetic CDOs.  This works great because it’s like a bond in reverse except with no initial capital.  You get yield based solely on a fiction.

There’s an entire synthetic economy out there.

http://www.zerohedge.com/article/sovereign-cds-update-bloodbath#comment-158076

 

Tue, 01/05/2010 – 12:49 | 183058 trav777

Taibbi isn’t smart enough to understand the problem.

THE problem is debt-based money.  It requires exponential growth.

At some point, finite, real physical systems place a ceiling on growth.

This is just the nature of things.  At that point, the system has to begin generating credit growth by ponzi means.  Synthetic debt was far larger than housing and residential mortgages.  By any means necessary, they grew the credit base.  The housing price trend was merely a symptom of a deeper problem.

Everyone is running around pointing at the tip of the iceberg as if that is the entire problem.  Then when they think they’ve solved that, they wonder why jfc the thing is still here.  There is so much more below the waterline, real foundational problems that are simply not contemplated by economists.  Consequently, they can do no more than run around making asinine proclamations.

Who cares how or why when the SYSTEM we operate in our actual money in the absolute, REQUIRES growth as a nature of its existence?  All the things we’ve seen WILL occur and MUST occur as a side effect of the inability of a real economy to produce the growth needed to pay the coupon on the money lent into it.

Look at the credit curve or the inflation curve since we hit our oil peak in 1970.  Look at all that happened since.  Every dollar in existence, whether physical or electronic, has an interest demand that it lays by its very existence upon the real economy.

The system merely found a way to temporarily satisfy those exponentially growing needs with synthetic inputs.  That is all.

I mean, shit, we HAD to grow lending, right?  Ever wonder why credit MUST be grown?  If you place that axiom upon a system, who could be surprised at what happened?  Credit done got grown, didn’t it?

All this talk of “socialism” and “capitalism” and government and the rest is just obfuscation.  I say this over and over again – UNDERSTAND the parable of the indian king, the chessboard, and the rice.  Until/unless you come to a fundamental understanding of what demands an exponential growth problem levies upon the real world, you will not get what has occurred and will continually scramble around with no more than a superficial grasp of the underlying issues.

http://www.zerohedge.com/article/taibbi-fannie-freddie-mortgages-bankers-and-marla-singer#comment-183058

 

 

Ask me about synthetic debt sometime.

If you look at them the right way, CDSs look like reverse bonds except without any capital.  Any payment stream can be securitized.

People out there have no clue wtf has been going on to drive credit growth…even the big fin bloggers like Douchinger and Mish couldn’t connect the dots.  I ghostwrote a post on TF and he locked it in “Gold” and then cribbed it for a ticker lol

At the core of these AAA rated instruments is shit of literally zero worth, by design.  How much is a mezz tranche of synthetic debt worth if the underliers hit trigger?  They sold QUADRILLIONS of this shit under the assumption that nothing would ever trigger.

Debtmoney demands it…if the real economy cannot drive credit growth due to resource peaks, make up an economy

~~~

 

Like I wasn’t sayin this back when they opened the facility.

Tried to get people to open their eyes…that the IBs were not swapping AAA paper, it was garbage, CDO squared shit and mezz tranche and things BUILT to go to zero.

Shit, most commentators are still acting as if these were real mortgages!  THEY WERE THE FUCKING TRANCHES THAT THE BANKS COULDN’T MOVE QUICKLY once the music stopped.  That’s what got stuck in their conduits!

95% of the reporters, commentators, and posters on financial sites like this DO NOT understand structured finance nor synthetic debt.

How much is a super senior tranche composed of a bunch of equity tranches worth?  It’s AAA!!!

~~~~~

 

Go down the list of the 5 major Hollywood Studios.  Or the CEOs of the major banks.

I mean, you’d have to be idiotic to not find this preponderance of semites at the pinnacle of finance to be “mildly” coincidental.

No conspiracy, just concert of likeminded actors and clan nepotism.  Any other ethnic group and someone would file an EEOC lawsuit.

And, you need to look into some history…founders of the BOE, Fed, the Weimar bankers…basically the banking clan since the 1600s has been not just predominantly but nearly exclusively jewish.  And you find nothing but ACCORD here that this institution is evil and fraudulent.  But as soon as someone points out “anomalies” in the ethnic composition of this kleptocratic bunch, the apoplexy reigns.

All these “banksters” people are railing against?  You get another weimar and it leads in one direction.  People aren’t intelligent enough to understand that “all A are B” does not imply the converse.  How many middle class lives need get destroyed in currency games and banking scams over the centuries before trouble erupts?  There will be no consolation for scapegoats caught up looking too much like real culprits.

This level of ethnic homogeneity in an industry noted for fraud, scams, and the destruction of entire nations’ finances is very dangerous.

http://www.zerohedge.com/article/disclosure-feds-primary-dealer-credit-facility-warehousing-worthless-collateral-goes-mainstream

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

completed on 04/24/2015

 

 

Mako

Fri, 10/08/2010 – 06:38 | 634612 Mako

Hephasteus

Karl has no idea what he is talking about.  He is pretending or has no idea how the process works.  There is no loan, anyone that says the bank lends you money to buy a house which is what he is talking about… doesn’t know what they are talking about.

 

Thu, 10/07/2010 – 22:46 | 634299 Mako

No, the real fun begins when the average American realizes the truth.  What is the truth, you were never given a loan and the banks can’t show a loss or damage from the non-existent loan.

You guys have only scratched the surface.

 

Thu, 10/07/2010 – 23:09 | 634318 Mako

You can’t simply turn an obligation to pay X amount over equal periods of time to equal damages when the party fails to complete their obligation.

“If you lend money to My people, to the poor among you, you are not to act as a creditor to him; you shall not charge him interest” Exodus 22:25

You guys really don’t want the Truth. 

The banks receive your mortgage note without risking one cent.

Modern Money Mechanics by the Federal Reserve and spells it out clear what is going on and what people refuse to want to know.  And for good reason, you world will be turned upside down.

“In the federal courts, it is well established that a national bank has not power to lend its credit to another by becoming surety, indorser, or guarantor for him.”’ Farmers and Miners Bank v. Bluefield Nat ‘l Bank, 11 F 2d 83, 271 U.S. 669

“It has been settled beyond controversy that a national bank, under federal Law being limited in its powers and capacity, cannot lend its credit by guaranteeing the debts of another. All such contracts entered into by its officers are ultra vires . . .” Howard & Foster Co. v. Citizens Nat’l Bank of Union, 133 SC 202, 130 SE 759(1926).

“It is not within those statutory powers for a national bank, even though solvent, to lend its credit to another in any of the various ways in which that might be done.” Federal Intermediate Credit Bank v. L ‘Herrison, 33 F 2d 841, 842 (1929).

“There is no doubt but what the law is that a national bank cannot lend its credit or become an accommodation endorser.” National Bank of Commerce v. Atkinson, 55 E 471.

“A bank is not the holder in due course upon merely crediting the depositors account.” Bankers Trust v. Nagler, 229 NYS 2d 142, 143.

 

Thu, 10/07/2010 – 23:09 | 634339 Dr. No

Welcome back Mako.  I havent seen a post from you in a while, but I was happy to see your input on this thread.  Your posts get me thinking more than most.

Thu, 10/07/2010 – 23:23 | 634353 Mako

People tend to believe fiction.  If you were born to parents that believe the Moon is made out of cheese, well, chances are you will believe the moon is made out of cheese.

Modern Money Mechanics by the Federal Reserve spells out the process step by step, states it plainly how the Demand Deposit Account moves the promissory note.

Everyone is playing pretend. What is the Truth?

THERE IS NO MORTGAGE.

You created currency by simply signing the mortgage note.

Read The Law of Fraudulent Transactions, by Peter A. Alces, ISBN 0-7913-0310-1

“However that may be, a plaintiff cannot convert a claim of damages for breach of contract into an equitable claim by the facile trick of asking that the defendant be enjoined from refusing to honor its obligation to pay the plaintiff what the plaintiff is owed under the contract and appending to that request a request for payment of the amount owed. A claim for money due and owing under a contract is “quintessentially an action at law.”  HYPERLINK “http://web2.westlaw.com/Find/Default.wl?DB=602&SerialNum=1996142036&Find…” \t “_top” Hudson View II Associates v. Gooden, 222 A.D.2d 163, 644 N.Y.S.2d 512, 516 (1996); see also  HYPERLINK “http://web2.westlaw.com/Find/Default.wl?DB=708&SerialNum=1977118754&Find…” \t “_top” Atlas Roofing Co. v. Occupational Safety & Health Review Comm’n, 430 U.S. 442, 459, 97 S.Ct. 1261, 51 L.Ed.2d 464 (1977).”

Wal-Mart Stores, Inc. Associates’ Health and Welfare Plan v. Wells 213 F 3d 398, 401

 

 

10/07/2010 – 23:29 | 634373 Mako

Once you realize there is no mortgage, you start to see how foolish this whole song and dance show is.  People are worried about false signatures, well, how in the world is the bank foreclosing on an agreement when no loan was given but only an exchange.

 

 

Thu, 10/07/2010 – 23:28 | 634366 Mako

The fiction with mortgages is that there is no mortgage.  They originate a mortgage that never existed, then they pawn that which does not exist to a 3rd party.

Oh, you don’t want to even know how far the rabbit hole goes.

They can’t sue for damages they didn’t possible have nor could have, well of course they can trick the stupid homeowner into believing that and leaving the keys in the door.

 

 

10/07/2010 – 23:36 | 634386 Dr. No

Dwelling on this for a second, is this how it goes?: A bank decides they want to give a “mortgage” to a borrower. They create a debit for the amount of the mortgage on their ledger (out of thin air).  They then sell the debit to Fannie Mae for the amount of the mortgage.  Fannie mae cuts the bank a check for amount to the mortgage.  The borrower then pays Fannie mae for the duration of the mortgage and the bank sits there and counts their checks.  If this is right, legally, how are they able to open that debit in the first place?  Do they buy CDS’s and count the as a credit?  How did Fannie get the money to buy the mortgage? Sell bonds?  This is interesting.

Thu, 10/07/2010 – 23:46 | 634394 Mako

The money came from you when you signed, your signature created that which they claimed they loaned you.  They never once loaned you anything.   Your so called mortgage note goes into a checking account, they then withdraw to pay for the house they claimed they loaned you.

They just got equity in your house without one dollar.

 

Thu, 10/07/2010 – 23:50 | 634402 Dr. No

Ahhh. Like a diamond….Like a diamond bullet right through my forehead (kurtz)…. The credit was created on the spot at the closing.  The banker “wired” the money after I created it by signing the mortgage contract.  No money existed prior to me signing.  My signature created a credit (a debt to me) with the bank for the amount of the mortgage. They then wired this “money” to the seller.  My debt contract was then sold down the chain.  If this is right, Bernanke would be proud.

Thu, 10/07/2010 – 23:59 | 634410 Mako

Basically it.  Modern Money Mechanics covers most of it.  It’s all fiction, people are pretending they got a mortgage and the bank loves the idea that people believe they are getting mortgage or a car loan or a credit card credit.

People are starting to get it unfortunately at the end of all this… will be chaos.

 

Fri, 10/08/2010 – 00:29 | 634454 Dr. No

Jesus.  I think I grasped it.  Jesus.  I sign a promise to pay.  The bank then puts a lien on an asset. From the asset they created a credit.  They then pay the seller.  I pay the bank and they hold a lein on a new asset.  They didnt use any of their money.  Infact they charged an origination fee for it.

Fri, 10/08/2010 – 00:32 | 634459 Mako

Exactly.

The problem is, well unless you are the person that has parents that believe the moon is made out of cheese… there is no way for the bank to convert a failure to pay on an obligation into damages… the bank must show damages, but unless they actually made a loan which they did not do they can’t show damages.

They can’t lend their own credit and they can’t show damages because no loan existed.

Of course, it will take the sheeple a few more years to figure this out, either way the system is coming to an end.

 

 

Fri, 10/08/2010 – 00:50 | 634465 Dr. No

In a world with a cheese moon, a good borrower would pay of the mortgage over 30 years at 5% interest.  They bank makes 5% per year over 30 years for being a paper pusher.  They risked no capital.

Edit: and it all worked if only prices went up.  With prices down, people start to ask if the moon really is made of cheese.

Fri, 10/08/2010 – 07:59 | 634646 Mako

Correct.

Once the system starts to implode everyone is then faced with cold hard facts.  People have been living in a lie, the Truth always wins the war.  Humans are running from the Truth, and for good reason at this point…. the unfunded liabilities will have to be liquidated.

 

10/08/2010 – 10:23 | 635006 Mako

You signed the note which was then deposited into an account from which they could withdraw the necessary funds.

The bank does not have $250,000 sitting there for you to lend you.  They take your note put into an account then withdraw from YOUR account to pay the seller.

 

 

10/08/2010 – 07:03 | 634623 Ned Zeppelin

Well, dollars did flow, to the seller of the home. So something happened that the bank attempted to document with a note, setting forth the principal and interest payment obligation, and the mortgage, whereby the otherwise unsecured obligation to pay money was secured.

But this whole concept of creating money from nothing and charging for the privilege is quite fascinating, I’ll grant you. One way to think through is to ask, well, if we’re not going to use this fait currency, money-from-nothing-money-is-debt system, how would it work? If the answer is lending can only come from accumulteed capital, doesn’t the world’s economic system contract like mad?

 

Fri, 10/08/2010 – 07:45 | 634644 Mako

Ned Zeppelin

Yes.  It’s going to contract it doesn’t matter what you use as money as long as humans continue to attach interest to their medium of exchange.

 

10/08/2010 – 06:32 | 634605 Mako

theprofromdover,

You created the money (credit) with your signature.  The bank can’t lend it’s own credit.  Matter of fact it would be illegal to do so, how about those apples.

The bank doesn’t have a big pile of Federal Reserves Notes sitting there, and then when you ask for a loan they give you those FRN.   They take the mortgage note put it in a checking account in your name, write a check against YOUR acccount, give you the other party the check and then claim they gave you loan, which is nonsense.  It would be illegal for the bank to lend you their credit and no they don’t have a big pile of legal tender sitting there.

It’s an exchange really.  No loan. The wonderful world of accounting.

As a loan was never funded, nor were funds ever lent, under the “Mortgage documents” how may one demand of another that which does not exist?

OH MY!

“What is Money?
If money is viewed simply as a tool used to facilitate transactions, only those media that are readily accepted in exchange for goods, services, and other assets need to be considered. Many things – from stones to baseball cards – have served this monetary function through the ages. Today, in the United States, money used in transactions is mainly of three kinds – currency (paper money and coins in the pockets and purses of the public); demand deposits (non-interest bearing checking accounts in banks); and other checkable deposits, such as negotiable order of withdrawal (NOW) accounts, at all depository institutions, including commercial and savings banks, savings and loan associations, and credit unions……” – Modern Money Mechanics

ALL OF YOU GUYS ARE THE HELICOPTERS.   YOU STOPPED FLYING IN 2007.

Fri, 10/08/2010 – 06:34 | 634611 LeBalance

Mako,

Thank you for being spot on target with this discussion in this thread.  I know by the discussion and responses that many people are having this realization for the first time.  I also know that many people (who do not post) are seeing this cogent dialogue and being exposed to the “correct” line of logic for the first time.

There are several series on YouTube namely Money as Debt (series I and II) that are in line with this line of logic and information.

There are many points upon which we have differences but services like this are priceless.

There is A Spoon!  But you made it up!  So live with it!

Fri, 10/08/2010 – 07:05 | 634622 Mako

The spoon is the loan, it never existed.  It’s simple accounting that created the so called money, the money changers did an exchange and not a loan.

Oh, I agree, chaos will be created once everything collapses.

Humans have been fighting a war they can’t possible win.

I laugh when all these people are talking about robosigner-gate, its only the tip of the iceberg. 

http://www.zerohedge.com/article/karl-denninger-explains-foreclosure-gate-dylan-ratigan#comment-634454

 

 

 

 

 

Tue, 04/27/2010 – 12:31 | 319760 SWRichmond

Tanks run over people whether they have gold in their pocket or not.

Given the extreme nature of your assertion, here’s the response: People with gold in their pockets are able to bribe border guards so that they can get out of the way of the tanks.

Tue, 04/27/2010 – 12:53 | 319789 Mako

It didn’t help the Jews, they cooked them and extracted the gold out of their teeth.  Tanks don’t stop they move forward.

Once the credit market completely blows up, productions will go down to near zero so you will have decreasing production chasing a fix or increasing amount of gold.  I figure 5-8 decades of deflation or a generation.   If nukes are used, there is the possiblity of deflation to zero for humans.

What you are referring to is exactly the same as saying house prices never fall, and we know how that turned out.

This time there will be people starving to death with gold and silver in their pocket, one of the last places I would want to live when the crap goes down is India and they probably have the most gold of any nation.  That ain’t going to mean crap.

 

 

 

04/27/2010 – 13:10 | 319831 Mako

Put them in camps.  Who said that, you don’t put dead people in camps.

No way you feed 7 billion once the credit market fully collapses, billions of unfunded liabilities are going one way or another.   A couple of billion right off the top and I would say 5-8 decades or a lost generation or a little longer.

Someone got to go, the price you pay for playing with the equation… final balloon payment at the end of the cycle. 

100+ million last time, that will look like chump change this time.  My guess a 1-2 billion in the first 10 years once it all collapses.

Al Huxley is 100% correct, mucho luck better be on your side.

 

04/27/2010 – 13:24 | 319877 Mako

Strawman argument, that is what you are doing.

Sorry without credit you will probably struggle to feed 4-5 billion if not much lower then that.

My guess: 1-2 billion would be the min., 2-3 billion likely, 4-5 billion is not out of question, 7 billion if nukes are used on a large scale.

“I ASSURE you that they will not be trading it for fiat paper currency either!”

Here is the main point of your strawman.  They won’t be trading with anything, you can only trade with what is being produced.   Production will decrease, once credit completely collapses, production will go down to near zero versus today’s levels,  less production means less production… doesn’t matter what you use as your medium of exchange.

No, they can’t trade what isn’t being produced.   Production will continue to go down until it hits it’s bottom.   You are assuming they have something trade with, which they won’t… which is why humans came up with credit.

This will end the same way it always does, just on a much larger scale.

http://www.zerohedge.com/article/gold-new-goldman#comments

05/05/2010 – 12:44 | 332786 Mako

All financial systems have blown up and collapse, everyone in the history of civilization except for the one that is present at the moment and is in the early stages of collapsing.

I have no idea what the question is… let me see the Roman Empire is still coining money.  Strange.  They all collapse, every single one… doesn’t matter what you use as your medium of exchange… collapse.  End of story.

Argentine defaulted in 2001, I have no idea what you are talking about.  Russia defaulted on it’s internal debts in 1998, even North Korea has defaulted, the US last defaulted on bonds redemptions in 1971 when Nixon closed the gold door.

05/05/2010 – 11:42 | 332692 Internet Tough Guy

You are confused; gold standard has nothing to do with compound interest. There is always enough gold to back the money supply; it is just a question of price.

Wed, 05/05/2010 – 11:53 | 332706 Mako

Sorry, you just missed 5,000 years of human history.  I mean you can tell lies all day long but don’t expect me to believe them.

Humans lend and borrow their gold attach compounding interest to it, eventually the amount credit built upon the medium of exchange is more then what exists… eventually humans can’t supply or demand the amount need… bank run.  Been happening since civilization started.

Sorry, every major financial system has collapsed since the dawn of civilization, it doesn’t matter what you use as your medium of exchange is.

Sorry, you guys are not producing enough new credit right now… actually it’s negative…. eventually the whole thing will collapse like Greece but much worse.   Good luck.

http://www.zerohedge.com/article/jim-rickards-tells-cnbcs-joe-kernen-gold-going-5000

 

Wed, 05/12/2010 – 10:17 | 345997 Mako

“When global governments refuse to act responsibly toward their currency”

Sorry, but if the government hadn’t intervened the system would not even exist.  There is no out.  All you are doing is playing the blame game.  Gold is not going to save you, tanks don’t give a shit if you have gold in your pocket or in your teeth when they fire on you.

If you think this blog is going to just keep running when the credit system collapses you are in for one rude ass awakening.

Humans are as stupid as a virus, they use the same equation then are surprised when they are wiped form the petri-dish.  If they and you were responsible, you wouldn’t have started this system and continue to support the system.

“There is no out, there is only in”

 

05/12/2010 – 10:48 | 346138 Mako

And what happened?  Collapse of the credit system, collapse of production, collapse of demand.

There wasn’t foodlines in the US because of the lack of capacity to produce food.  No shortage of land, no shortage of equipment, no shortage of labor… yet there was food lines.

Wed, 05/12/2010 – 11:06 | 346202 Hulk

Exactly

 

05/12/2010 – 12:00 | 346335 Mako

They were dumping grain at sea in Europe to get the price up, while at the same time people on shore were starving and going without.

People just don’t get it, there is no out.

Once the credit system goes, that’s it, production will go with it.  Most people have never sat down and really reflected on what “credit” is and isn’t, and how it currently fuels production.   They will once it collapses and liquidation begins.

 

05/12/2010 – 11:52 | 346317 Mako

When I say gold will not save you, it’s a generalization.   Will someone exchange you a piece of bread for your gold coin?  Sure, that might hold off starvation for one more day.   However, at the end of the day… someone is going to have to go.   Once the credit system collapses, liquidation will have to begin.

As the system starts to collapse further, more and more production will go offline.   Once it fully collapses, sure you might have some temporary benefit for holding gold, silver, or chicken wire, heck I don’t know.   However, over time during the down phase… you will eventually have less and less production.

If gold were the savior of the world, humans would have never started borrowing and lending at a rate of interest.

I like the site, but people are still misguided by why they think the world is at this point, and about getting out of this.

There is no easy way out, there was an easy way in.

 

 

The system has been stealing from the future at an exponential rate to sustain it’s own existence.  What happens when that system no longer exists?  How do all those products get to Walmart?

“I don’t think anyone is going to be biting off bits of gold for bread, but the gold will hold value as the paper will not.”

For that to happen, production would have to grow exponentially grow and gold would have to exponentially grow with it. Good luck with that.  Basically you have gone to the max ie top takes 60-80 years… after 55 years you are on death watch… the power of compounding… once you peak, collapse, liquidate until you reach the bottom.   Waves or cycles.

“what do you think gov’ts will use for money?  I’d say gold/silver have a great chance at being included so when they revalue gold for the amount of fiat out there, blam, the one ounce coin is convertable into a larger amount of fiat…and fiat is somewhat controlled until politicians decide to plunder the wealth again.”

YOu ran out of gold to further expand the system centuries ago.   Who knows what people will trade or barter with each other with, gold, silver, water, food, land, chicken wire… either way without credit, production will go down from today’s levels drastically.

http://www.zerohedge.com/article/panic-buying-physical-gold-europe-threatens-depletion-austrian-mint#comment-346202

 

 

 

 

Fri, 02/26/2010 – 11:22 | 246600 Mako

The white house can’t forbid foreclosures stop promoting lies.   The federal government might have power through licensing or other programs to stop big banks from foreclosing and even that is pretty far fetched.

If I loan money to my a friend, he buys a house, the house is collateral, he stops paying, I can foreclose and there is nothing the federal government can do to stop it… property ownership is a matter of STATE RIGHTS.   Why do you think you have a county or parish courthouse that holds the property records?

Most of the big banks don’t even have clean title or records to back up most of the foreclosures anyway, if someone wanted to fight these things they have a good likelyhood of getting a house.  There is no clear line of ownership with securization.

Stop acting like the federal government is a entity of unlimited power, if you really want change start at the state level and cancel the state agreements with the federal goverment ie Social Security, Income Tax, etc.

 

 

 

Fri, 02/26/2010 – 11:22 | 246609 hedgeless_horseman

What you say makes sense.  Maybe Barry O’Potus is just fucking with us?

Fri, 02/26/2010 – 11:34 | 246623 Mako

People need to take back their States and cancel these agreements with the federal government, this is only way to take this country back.

As far as the financial system it’s toast, you humans do not have unlimited power to hold back the exponential equation which the system is built on.

Take back your State and you take back your country.

Here is Michigan’s Plan to work with the feds with SS.

The public Act 1 of 1936 then the Public Act 280 1939.  This is Michigan Law that conforms to Federal Law that gets the State of Michigan in the act of SS.   How about those apples?

Cancel all agreements with the Federal government, take back your State then you will take back your country.

http://www.zerohedge.com/article/short-and-sweet-upcoming-foreclosure-ban-lenders-now-have-no-rights#comment-246609

 

 

 

 

 

Tue, 06/15/2010 – 09:44 | 414449 Mako

It will have to continue exponential by someone to keep the system rolling.  US consumer is gone, no credit expansion, without the Federal government creation you would be living in Mad Max right now…. eventually the Federal government will be overran by the freight train that is the equation.

Credit creation at the peak was $4.7T (annualized) 2007

Credit creation now -$808B (Q1 2010) (annualized)

The fat lady started warming up 2 years ago.

I laugh at these people that think they have found the solution, the US government needs to stop spending…. hahahaha, yeah, remove that creation and see what happens…. instant collapse.

Tue, 06/15/2010 – 09:47 | 414457 Popo

Agreed.  Although, 1946 shows us there is one alternate scenario of what happens when you stop spending….  You can actually get private sector growth:

http://ideas.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/06/15/the-great-de-stimulus-of-1946/?hp

 

Tue, 06/15/2010 – 09:55 | 414467 Mako

Was not possible until after liquidation was performed ie Hilter destroyed Europe and northern African and the Japanese emperor destroy major portions of Asia.

– System starts

– System expands at the rate needed

– System peaks

– System unable to expand at rate needed

– System collapses

– System liquidates

– Rinse and repeat if choosen

After destruction of nearly half of the civilized world, huge demand for raw material products to rebuild.

There is no demand now because you have peaked, eventually full on collapse.

Tue, 06/15/2010 – 10:09 | 414488 Mako

In neither case had the system peaked, the UK was still creating new credit into the system until the late 20s.  Which is why the US was able to rebound from the early 20s so rapidly. They peaked, system collapsed, and then liquidated in 1930-1945.

In the 40s, huge demand… rebuild the world ie consumer led by the US consumer, even then it was still a slow process.

That is not the case now, without the US government the system would be generating -$2.8T of new credit… that is collapse.  The fuel is gone ie US consumer.

Tue, 06/15/2010 – 10:13 | 414497 LeBalance

So Mako, you are saying that at some point the system collapses, yes?

If so is the amount of STHTF smaller or larger the later we stop the music?

If larger don’t you agree we should stop now?

Just asking.

Tue, 06/15/2010 – 10:26 | 414519 Mako

“If larger don’t you agree we should stop now?”

The purpose of the system is to expand as big and as long as possible then implode.  The machines in the Matrix were well aware of the eventually outcome, they built a reset button(Neo), unfortunately humans do not have that choice… well why? because if all the humans understood the lie, there would be no system to start with.

If you were wanting to avoid the result, humans shouldn’t have started it.

There is nothing to stop, the system already peaked and you are now collapsing.  The system is not getting larger anymore, it’s over… the fat lady is warming up and will with time step out on the stage.

You will be witnessing the biggest and most beautiful song the fat lady has ever sung.

http://www.zerohedge.com/article/uk-holdings-us-treasuries-go-exponential-foreigners-now-hold-396-trillion-american-debt#comment-414457

 

 

 

 

Tue, 07/20/2010 – 18:34 | 479879 Mako

What is scary is realizing what would have happened in 2008 without massive coverup…. in two years the system went from creating $4.7T of new credit to -$808B rate of destruction.  To put that in context, the system started at $440B in 1944.

The scary part is in the future, decades of destruction.

Inflation is dead for the rest of my lifetime and I figure at least a generation past that this time.

If you believe in the Helicopter Ben lie, you would be buying anything you can get your hands on… houses, stocks, corn, wheat, oil, etc.

Eventually the collapse of the post WWII global trade and credit system.  The only way you get out of this on short-term say 20-40 years is if you hire another Hilter to destroy unneeded capacity and to put the unfunded liabilities out of their misery.

I would say 1-2 Billion unfunded are going to have to go right at the start and probably a few billion after that over longer term.

I am waiting on these people that believe in Helicopter Ben to start getting on their hands and knees praying for the helicopters to come, I am surprised they don’t have temples for worshipping these famous helicopters.

Tue, 07/20/2010 – 18:35 | 479910 trav7777

Each and every time a nation has been faced with this mathematical inevitability, it has defaulted.

Deflation will slash wages and production.  Then scarcity sets in but the rich will outbid all others.  Really, South America is instructive – high joblessness AND high prices.  That is the way it is in most of the “developing” world and that is how it will be here.

Just because you don’t have a job or any money, don’t expect someone to sell cars for $100 again.  Prices didn’t fall when production moved to China despite the labor savings.

Tue, 07/20/2010 – 18:43 | 479918 Mako

That is what the Z1 is showing, a default of or on the system or how I would put a collapse of expansion.  You and your country men have been defaulting for over 2 years by not supplying the equation, of course it’s an impossiblity long-term, usually 60-80 years.

Don’t worry, you won’t be around the next time the system collapses, the cycle is longer than a normal human beings life span, you will only have to go through it once.

I don’t expect cars to go for $100, production will go to near zero in auto manufacturing, this ain’t going to be as nice as the 30s and 40s.

 

 

 

Thu, 07/22/2010 – 11:42 | 483593 Mako

It’s a fact it’s not my opinion.

You had inflation from 1945 to 2007 of 5.5-15% annually, that stopped by the end of 2007 and went negative in 2009 and continues to be negative.  It’s simple a fact.

Of course, things usually don;t go in a straight line.  If the Fed and the Federal government wouldn’t have gotten in the act it would have looked more like a straight line down.

cycles and cycles within cycles.   You are looking at a collapse and liquidation process that will take place over the rest of your lifetime and probably beyond that.

What Faber is talking about is the Federal government taking on the sole creator of new credit, of course it’s unsustainable… why? because the real helicopter… all lemmings requesting new credit stop flying in 2007.

Death spiral, there is no out except through the meat grinder.

Thu, 07/22/2010 – 11:56 | 483660 Mako

Well, they are trying… before you know it they will reset everyone’s credit score to 850 in a desperate attempt to get those people to take on more loans even though they have already defaulted.  It’s game, set and match.   I guess they can go to the funeral home and start digging up dead bodies and make them sign up for an alleged loan that never existed to start with.

See Modern Money Mechanics by the Federal Reserve.

Simple put the pyramid scheme has run it’s course, of course people still believe, how do I know, well the system would collapse this second if they didn’t.

I am out of this discussion.  Federal Reserve Z1 reports is showing the lie that everyone is running from.  The Helicopters are all these people that stopped requesting the commerical banks to create new.

http://www.zerohedge.com/article/inflation-deflation-spread-hits-9-schrodingers-cat-goes-nuts#comment-483593

 

 

Thu, 07/29/2010 – 11:44 | 494182 Mako

– The trustee is not the holder in due course and is a debt collector under the FDCPA to foreclose

– The debt collector pretending to be an attorney at law who submitted a complaint is in violation of FDCPA.

Both the attorney and/or trustee are debt collectors and lack standing to foreclose.  Of course, there was no loan to start with but that irrelevant at that stage, the petitioner has to prove standing, yet petitioner lacks standing and is in violation of FDCPA.

See

Federal Debt Collections Practices Act

Rules of the court where foreclosure complaint was submitted

Heintz v. Jenkins, 514 U.S. 291 (1995)… the attorney is a debt collector

(many other good comments regarding who has standing)

http://www.zerohedge.com/article/mortgage-originators-everywhere-seeing-red-freddie-30-year-mortgage-hits-fresh-all-time-low-#comment-494111

 

 

 

Fri, 05/14/2010 – 11:52 | 351909 Mako

tictawk

“problem of too much debt and trying to solve a debt crisis by creating more debt”

You were brainwashed by your parents to believe personal finance rules apply to the system.  The system only survives by an expansion of “credit/debt”, so your whole statement is kind of incorrect.

The only way the system survives is taking on debt, if not what you going to service the prior debt with?  Hmmm.

 

05/14/2010 – 13:03 | 352082 B9K9

Jekyll Island attempts to pin the blame on the Fed, but the problem is much more fundamental. For interested readers, I would suggest the following two sources of information.

The first link is a general presentation of exponents:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-QA2rkpBSY&feature=related

The second is a recap of how ancient societies recognized the dangers of exponential math when applied to finance & money, the laws they enacted to prevent & forestall these dangers, and the warnings they issued across hundreds of generations to future readers:

http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/view.jsp?artid=58&letter=U

Fri, 05/14/2010 – 13:09 | 352102 Mako

“but the problem is much more fundamental”

Bingo.  Great post.

Eliminating the Fed will not eliminate the balloon payment at the end of the cycle.

The current system is the same as the last system and the system before that… been doing this since before things call banks or central banks or the Fed even existed.

Fri, 05/14/2010 – 13:26 | 352157 B9K9

Money lenders don’t really fear the loss of fortune. Take away their gold, but allow them to retain their core ability to lend, and they will once again be in charge.

The power-elite’s greatest fear is that mankind finally throws off their shackles & outlaws the practice of usury. We have the ability to create a system that is more logical, that allows capital to efficiently flow where demanded in order to provide sufficient investment for future growth & productivity.

But first we will need to educate our youngest generations. The law of exponential math should be taught from 3rd grade on. Each successive school year should introduce different historical lessons why certain prohibitions are in place, and what happened to governance & liberty when forbearance was abandoned by previous generations.

The coming catastrophe will be indelibly imprinted on their collective consciousness.

http://www.zerohedge.com/article/freefall-eurusd-12388-and-plunging-market-liquidity-disappears-again-traders-brace-another-f#comment-351909

 

 

Tue, 08/17/2010 – 10:21 | 525819 Mako

Any large system based on usury is doomed to collapse.  It’s not a conspiracy, there is just two classes of people 1.) the stupid lemmings(ones that believe the lie) that believe a system based on usury can be sustained long-term 2.) the people that can do basic Math(and don’t believe the lie) and know it can’t be sustained long-term.

Plenty of sucker lemmings still out there… how do I know… well the system would collapse this second if there wasn’t.  Eventually the remaining lemmings will be overwhelmed by their stupidity.

Conspiracy no, a bunch of stupid lemmings, yes

http://www.zerohedge.com/article/guest-post-purpose-behind-engineered-economic-collapse?page=1

 

 

 

Tue, 08/24/2010 – 14:03 | 540811 Mako

Central banks never had control, that is the assumption that is being proven wrong just like the last time, and if you create a system using usury as your basis, next time will look basically the same.

The only way a central bank could be in control is if they have unlimited power, absent unlimited power they are about as powerful as the Wizard of Oz hiding behind the curtain.

The job of the central bank and Benny is to keep all you lemming marching along the road to doom till your dying breath.   The longer the road travelled until you die from fatique, the more successful they were.  This has been the most successful system to date, in the end it will mean the most number of liquidated non-performing lemmings(liabilities) to date.

It has always been known the lemmings would die from fatique, the only questions were when and where along the road they collapsed.  Watch Benny now, they will try and beat the fatique lemming sitting on the side of the road once again to keep him walking down the road to doom.  Eventually Benny will be beating a dead lemming in the hopes of getting him walking… entertainment at it’s finest.

 

Tue, 08/24/2010 – 14:12 | 540897 Mako

Fatique or even over eating until vomitting and implosion happens. 🙂

I actually like the video below as an example of their futile attempt.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y_24rmOoCjU

Beat a dead horse or lemming is good to.

http://www.cenekreport.com/storage/beating_a_dead_horse.jpg?__SQUARESPAC…

All attempts will eventually fail, the equation always wins the war.

http://www.zerohedge.com/article/japan-ministry-finance-announces-may-consider-unilateral-jpy-selling-interventions-if-specul#comment-540811

 

 

Thu, 08/26/2010 – 12:25 | 545984 Mako

Well, finally an article that isn’t completely stupid. (Cheers all around)

There is no deleveraging in the system, deleveraging SYSTEM WIDE is called a collapse.  The only way the system doesn’t collapse is getting more lemmings in, leveraging up, not down.

Following a collapse you have to liquidate.

Total credit market debt is $52.2T down from $52.9T, it’s not deleveraging… it’s collapsing.  The system ran out of idiot brick lemmings to put in the system at a great enough rate.

What you are in is the beginning phase of the collapse, eventually the collapse will pick up, then after that the liquidation of all the non-performing lemmings.

Thu, 08/26/2010 – 12:25 | 545992 SheepDog-One

I concur. Even a depression assumes some kind of functioning economy underneath it…what we have here is a 75% Borrow and Consume FAILED economic model, and no amount of 24/7 fiat currency printing will ever float it! Beginning of the collapse, and this one will be the biggest the world as ever seen by factor.

Thu, 08/26/2010 – 12:32 | 545998 Mako

Nice post.

The system is working as designed… expand, peak, fail to expand, collapse, eventually liquidate.

Most of the underlying real economy is going to be wiped out when the credit system collapse.

Printing does nothing once the real credit system peaks.  It’s like beating a dead horse, doesn’t matter how much you beat it… it ain’t going to run faster.  Lemmings are only now realizing they are the printing press and the printing press is being destroyed.

The deleveraging lie is just like the decoupling lie… all fiction.  Buzz words that work until the global credit system peaks.  Once the global credit system peaked those words mean absolutely nothing.

Thu, 08/26/2010 – 13:22 | 546116 IBelieveInMagic

Mako, can’t the system be resurrected with pointed debt jubilee.

Also, I am hard pressed to think the Feds will not have Plan B on shelf. We may like to think of them as fools based on what they state publicly but that is not necessarily what they believe or know. The Feds are trying to keep the game going and will switch to Plan B when certain red flags kick in…

Am I being naive?

 

Thu, 08/26/2010 – 13:38 | 546137 Mako

They can have any plan they want… it will fail unless they have unlimited power.

Once you realize the system is based on the false assumption of “unlimited”, you then know it will collapse.   If you could supply “unlimited”, I would think that would make you God or God-like.

So, you either believe there is a Wizard of Oz or you don’t.  Pretending like there is a Wizard of Oz has a relative short life span… I would say 55-80 years.

The government and the central banks can effect the rate, matter of fact that is the job of the CB… to continue the lie as long as possible. 

“The Architect – The matrix is older than you know. I prefer counting from the emergence of one integral anomaly to the emergence of the next, in which case this is the sixth version.”

There is nothing going on today that hasn’t already occurred in the past.

“Am I being naive?”

No, don’t think of it like that.  You were born into this so it is all you know, you will only experience one system collapse in your lifetime so how would you know?

Once you realize you need “unlimited” power to keep the lie going, you know that the Truth always wins.

08/26/2010 – 14:50 | 546319 Mako

IBIM

As time goes on they need more and more power to sustain the lie.  They were able to slow the decline in 2008/2009, the same trick will require much more once the 2010 is up.

You can certainly have slow death periods, but it will collapse and it will have to be liquidated.  There is nothing that can be done other than to effect the rate some… as time goes on it will be less and less effective.

It has never been a question of if, it has only been a question of exactly when.   The clock is ticking.

http://www.zerohedge.com/article/guest-post-great-deleveraging-lie#comment-546172

 

 

 

Thu, 09/30/2010 – 08:06 | 615070 Mako

It’s planned FUBAR.  All the lemmings have been led to the black pit.  You have been living in fiction.

1.) an attorney in court foreclosing or collecting a debt is a debt collector and has no standing

2.) a trustee, nominee, servicer, etc have no standing because they are NOT the holder in due course

3.) even if the note could be found

4.) assignments are messed up

5.) although the mortgage docs say a loan was given, no loan was given and matter of fact it would illegal for the banks to give you a loan… bank don’t and can’t lend their own credit

6.) banks can’t show a loss because there was nothing for them to lose, they do not lend their own credit

READ the Modern Money Mechanics by the Federal Reserve

Very few debts can be reduced to judgment if you know how fiction of the system works.

Thu, 09/30/2010 – 08:10 | 615088 blindfaith

please site references for all to see…someone may need them.

Thu, 09/30/2010 – 09:04 | 615185 Mako

http://law.onecle.com/ussc/514/514us291.html

Heintz v. Jenkins, 514 U.S. 291 (1995)

An attorney who regularly collects a debt is a debt collector and can be sued if they do not comply with Fair Debt Collection Practices Act.   A bank is a fiction and has to be represented but an attorney is a debt collector.  You can actually sue the attorney declaration and damages if the attorney does not follow the act.   I don’t know how an attorney can serve you motions when you can tell them to stop contacting via the Act.

Standing is fundamental Law, party A can’t sue on behave of party C.   Only the holder in due course can sue.

Holder in due course can’t convert a non-payment on a contract into damages, the holder must prove damages.  No damages were cause because banks don’t lend their own credit.

Read the Modern Money Mechanics.  The easiest way to fight all this is challenging standing first and foremost. 

1.) no party that has standing

2.) attorney is a debt collector and has no standing and can be sued via the FDCPA.

3.) possibly missing note or incomplete assignment and recording of assignment

4.) even if they get by all that, no loan was given

5.) you can’t simply convert a non-payment into damages, no damages will be found because a bank does not lend it’s own credit

If they start foreclosure you can move in a few different fronts,  1.) show plantiff and attorney have no standing 2.) move an action in USDC as to the status of the plantiffs as debt collector and/or 3.) if the county court is rubber stamping foreclosures, file for bankruptcy and when the planitiff comes there make them prove standing that they don’t have

http://www.zerohedge.com/article/are-250000-foreclosure-sales-q2-about-be-reversed-fitch-prepares-downgrade-foreclosure-fraud#comment-615070

 

 

Fri, 10/08/2010 – 15:54 | 636338 B9K9

Like KD, Mako is finally getting his due. A few months ago people would junk him simply because they didn’t understand the point he was making every time he posted up a Z1 report.

As to point #1, it doesn’t matter if it’s a gold back system or pure fiat. The nut is the compound nature of principal+interest. Fiat just moved the game to a whole new level of abstraction. That is, money/credit was completely disconnected from reality as a means of exercising even greater control.

As to point #2, the Fed is just a junior version of the BoE. The Dutch (ahem, power-elite) brought over their banking expertise (fractional reserve lending) developed from bankrupting Spain* to GB in 1690. They have had a marvelous, wonderfully long run.

Too bad it’s all finally coming to an end.

*If anyone wants a good example of the power of exponents, how is it that the country which controlled access to the world’s most extensive gold & silver resources repeatedly defaulted as a result of failing to make payments to (paper) money lenders?

Fri, 10/08/2010 – 16:42 | 636470 Mako

Don’t tell Karl any of that, I guess someone sent him what I have written and he keeps talking about convincing a judge.  I wouldn’t even know why you want to convince a judge of anything.  His lack of understanding is mindblowing on this subject.

All he has to do is read the Fed book on all this. Of course, he will go and talk to lawyers and such, oh the same lawyers that claim they have standing even though they are not a holder in due course and are in fact DEBT COLLECTORS under the statutory laws of the United States.

And if the holder in due course does show up, which is very unlikely if not impossible in most situation, well, they are going to have to show a lose on the original contract.  Oh shit really!  Oh crap, what’s that stamp on the note and what account was it put in and why?  Oh shit get me out of here.

“However that may be, a plaintiff cannot convert a claim of damages for breach of contract into an equitable claim by the facile trick of asking that the defendant be enjoined from refusing to honor its obligation to pay the plaintiff what the plaintiff is owed under the contract and appending to that request a request for payment of the amount owed. A claim for money due and owing under a contract is “quintessentially an action at law.”  HYPERLINK “http://web2.westlaw.com/Find/Default.wl?DB=602&SerialNum=1996142036&Find…” \t “_top” Hudson View II Associates v. Gooden, 222 A.D.2d 163, 644 N.Y.S.2d 512, 516 (1996); see also  HYPERLINK “http://web2.westlaw.com/Find/Default.wl?DB=708&SerialNum=1977118754&Find…” \t “_top” Atlas Roofing Co. v. Occupational Safety & Health Review Comm’n, 430 U.S. 442, 459, 97 S.Ct. 1261, 51 L.Ed.2d 464 (1977).”

Wal-Mart Stores, Inc. Associates’ Health and Welfare Plan v. Wells 213 F 3d 398, 401

Fri, 10/08/2010 – 22:39 | 637159 DaveyJones

Mako, I was talking about your posts today with a contract lawyer in my office who I think is a pretty sharp guy, we debated it around for a while until he said “Oh shit”

Sat, 10/09/2010 – 07:13 | 637485 Mako

Humans have been using the same scheme over and over for 1000s of years.  Yes, eventually there is going to be a worldwide OH SHIT.

 

Fri, 10/08/2010 – 14:39 | 635962 Mako

Modern Money Mechanics by the Federal Reserve.

Heck, I would say a banker would be dumb if he didn’t try to resell the non-existent mortgage back to the same stupid lemming that thinks he/she received a loan from the bank.

This world is one big ass Greek comedy that is going to go up in a mushroom cloud.  It’s like a Seinfeld show.

Fri, 10/08/2010 – 15:13 | 636141 Assetman

Ah yes… the Seinfeld “Show About Nothing”.  Haven’t seen it. 😉

On a little more serious note, Mako… you are one of the smartest guys on the ZH block, but I have a curiosity-type question:

Have you read any critiques of “Modern Money Mechanics by the Federal Reserve”?  And if so, what are they?

If there is no mortgage, is there no debtor?  Or creditor?

Fri, 10/08/2010 – 15:42 | 636200 Mako

There is an obligation if a loan is given.  No loan is given no obligation can exist under your agreement.  You will see on your mortgage docs saying you received a loan and now you have an obligation.

Obligation is statutory defined in Title 12 CFR.

The Promissory Note is a promise to  pay a loan servicer, generally presumed to be the holder in due course, a  monthly payment every thirty days over the amortization period of the Obligation.

Of course, you don’t ask for what does not exist, you challenge standing of the party to bring such action. The lawful question is to substantiate that the loan servicer does not have legal standing to command the Trustee to execute the Deed of Trust.

All these banks and attorney for the banks are completely wrong it is the job of the defendant to force them back to their dark hole.

No mortgage was given, so exactly how did they get equity in your house with no money?

 

10/09/2010 – 07:27 | 637478 Mako

Fiction of Law. That which is false is presumed to be true. What is presumed to be true, that the bank gives you a loan and funds it.  Everyone is in on it, the bank the court and now even the forclosed homeowner.  They are all sitting around talking about a loan that never happened.

The goal is uncover that the party accepting the mortgage payments, is nothing but a broker, a loan servicer, who has no lawful claim as the beneficiary of the Deed of  Trust.

Then with the documentation secured from the Loan Trust, the Mortgage paperwork, and supplemental communication issued by the loan servicer, the targeted Home owner of the non judicial foreclosure sale, may move a question of law in the proper jurisdiction to substantiate the loan servicer has no lawful standing to command a legal foreclosure under the Deed of Trust.

All these cases are acts of a DEBT COLLECTOR hiding in plain sight using by claiming to be an attorney of Law when in fact they ware DEBT COLLECTORS.

There is nether money lent, nor funds borrowed, there is only the deposit of one’s signed documentation into the demand despot transaction account of the state and or federally chartered financial services company’s form driven administrative operation of statutory law.

How may the loan servicer move a proof of claim when the promissory notes sits elsewhere, beyond said servicer’s statutory reach, in a separate legalistic formed entity, statutorily defined as the Real Estate Mortgage Investment Conduit without recourse?

OH CRAP!!!!

In virtually none of these cases does the plaintiff that is moving a foreclosing action have STANDING.

These guys are not stopping because of robo-signing gate, people are already figuring out that none of the jokers have standing, and there is no way for them to gain standing.  Robo-signing Gate is nothing but the smoke screen to the real issue… that there is no standing of the party moving the foreclosure action.

Under your state financial laws t plainly states, a creditor may charge fees as if they may be deemed to be  “interest”.   No loan was made nor funded they are charging you a fee.   The fiction is that this fee is interest that was funded by the bank and gave to the seller of the home. 

THE SO CALLED ATTORNEY AT LAW IS A DEBT COLLECTOR, THE TRUSTEE IS A DEBT COLLECTOR, THE NOMINEE IS A DEBT COLLECTOR AND THE LOAN SERVICER IS A DEBT COLLECTOR.   Oh crap.

http://openjurist.org/443/f3d/373/wilson-v-draper-and-goldberg-pllc

Nor is it relevant that Defendants were attorneys. Generally speaking, all lawyers are fiduciaries for their clients. As discussed above, however, the more important question is whether Defendants’ actions were “incidental” to their fiduciary obligation. We conclude that they are not. Furthermore, it is well-established that lawyers can be “debt collectors” even if conducting litigation. See Heintz v. Jenkins, 514 U.S. 291, 299, 115 S.Ct. 1489, 131 L.Ed.2d 395 (1995) (“[T]he Act applies to attorneys who `regularly’ engage in consumer-debt-collection activity, even when that activity consists of litigation.”). In fact, the Act as originally enacted exempted attorneys from its coverage, but Congress amended the Act in 1986 “to provide that any attorney who collects debts on behalf of a client shall be subject to the provisions of [the] Act.” Pub.L. No. 99-361, 100 Stat. 768 (codified at 15 U.S.C.A. 1692a); see also Carroll v. Wolpoff & Abramson, 961 F.2d 459, 461 (4th Cir. 1992) (discussing repeal of the attorney exemption). If the principal purpose of a lawyer’s work is the collection of debts, he is a “debt collector” under the Act. See Scott v. Jones, 964 F.2d 314, 316-17 (4th Cir.1992).

 

 

Of course, I have seen people that have figured this out but then go to court and try and ARGUE all kinds of crap.  The goal of the defendant in a foreclosure action is not to prove himself right but to prove the other party WRONG.

Simple put, the plaintiff in these actions have no standing regardless if there was a loan or not.  More than likely the promissory note is embedded within the REMIC without recourse. It is up to the defendant to stop the plaintiff from using deviant means to secure something that is not legally theirs.

http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p938.pdf

Once the home owner makes the last payment, the statutory clock on debt starts ticking.

http://www.zerohedge.com/article/janet-tavakoli-biggest-fraud-history-capital-markets?page=1

 

 

 

03/22/2014 – 12:53 | 4580427 Landotfree

“But there are steps investors can take to help mitigate the damage, particularly by moving assets to those areas of the world that are not making the same mistakes that we are”

 

Sorry Peter, the rest of the world is going to collapse and burn once the global credit system is unable to expand.   You remember what your customers portfolios looked like in 2008 and 2009, where you had them investing in foreign stocks, gold and silver.   I do… most of your clients were down 60%.

Oh yeah, that’s right you called the housing top and didn’t short… lol.

The rest of world is not imploding because of the actions taken, of course, that is all temporary, eventually the amount of power needed to sustain the unsustainable will be too great…. the whole global system will collapse.   There is no backup system there Peter.

Crash Proof…. haha… .you didn’t crash proof anything.   Let me see you think that is going to work next time?

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-03-22/peter-schiff-debt-and-taxes#comment-4580427

 

 

 

trav7777 on Mako

 

Fri, 11/11/2011 – 20:44 | 1871334 trav7777

Mako wasn’t the only one.

He and I differed only in that I don’t see the effing apocalypse and madmax as a result.  the lizards have been doing this since their holy texts were written, always to outsiders.

There’s a lot of history people don’t know and the history of chosen participation in the basest vice trades, to a point of dominance of them, is but one aspect that has been whitewashed.  Carpetbagger interest lending to freed slaves was another source of income, as was the financing and trade in the slaves themselves.  If you repeat this history, you are marginalized and smeared.

However, these cycles run longer than human lifespans; there is no particular planning in them, just how to work with clan power to dominate any particular phase.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/turd-ferguson-inexorable-march-higher-precious-metals

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Tue, 11/02/2010 – 10:40 | 693072 Mako

That is not hyperinflation.  You use credit as money, credit will not be hyperinflating.

People can turn their backs on anything they want regardless of the number of items in circulation.

 

Tue, 11/02/2010 – 10:07 | 692971 Mako

No, it’s a stupid article.  If you don’t have inflation of the money supply ie credit, you won’t have the interest to pay off the prior money supply created.  Without inflation, you collapse and liquidate… this is what happens when you attach interest to your money supply.

“Grantham warns that Bernanke’s actions on Wednesday are a desperate last ditch attempt to fend off the pain of reality. It will fail.”

Of course, you can’t exponential grow forever, which is the system all you lemmings want to have, well, at the end of the line… collapse and liquidation of the non-performing lemmings.

“This is truly a suicide mission.”

It was a suicide mission the day the lemming decide to attach interest to their transaction and money supply.  The article is once again blaming the last straw instead the first straw.

http://www.zerohedge.com/article/guest-post-suicide-painless#comment-693072

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Mon, 03/22/2010 – 14:28 | 272443 Mako

 

 

There is no seperate system.   It’s one global system which is supplied new demand from the United States.

Those china men will be going back to the rice patties on the bicycles they road in on.

 

http://www.zerohedge.com/article/stunner-china-set-announce-record-trade-deficit-march

 

 

Fri, 04/30/2010 – 09:18 | 325228 Mako

Exactly, sit back and watch the fireworks, a few delays here and there but overall we won’t be sitting on a internet blog talking about this in 10 years.  Enjoy the entertainment, it’s like watching a insect trying to get out of a spider web.

The engine of the world went into reverse, credit destruction not credit creation, death spiral.  Decoupling is the myth paid advisors want you to believe.   Once the US fails it’s over, it’s already over we just don’t know the exact date yet.

Portugal will lend to Greece, Greece will lend to Spain, Spain will lend to Italy, Italy will lend to France, France will lend to Ireland, etc. until someone goes around the horn and lends it back to Portugal.

It’s a death spiral folks.

Fri, 04/30/2010 – 10:10 | 325347 Hulk

Looks like is unwinding just as you have been describing for months now Mako.

Just wait until oil spikes…….

~~~~~~~~~

Fri, 04/30/2010 – 10:52 | 325452 trav7777

At what point does mass Point of Recognition arrive that the oil peak means that the Age of Growth is over?

The future cannot repay today’s debts.

I have to believe that somebody besides a few of us was perspicacious enough to see this…and yet this debtmoney is still afforded confidence and respect.  So, why not just print it?  I think mass inertia and ostrich behavior should carry us through…

Fri, 04/30/2010 – 11:02 | 325474 B9K9

Travis, the power-elite control the media. That means the truth won’t be allowed to take root until the appropriate time. IOW, we won’t see the truth appear until their short positions have been established for maximum return.

Imagine transporting your comments back to 2006. GS, et al knew private sector debt saturation was nearing its terminal end-point and were preparing their shorts accordingly.

But what about the MSM? Sure there were whispers, but was it common knowledge? Of course not; thus the growth of the original blogs. Well, fast forward to 2008 and we now have a complete paradigm shift, where everyone knew real estate was overpriced and would collapse.

At some point in the near future, the power-elite will direct their MSM units to broadcast the truth and it will suddenly become common knowledge that both Keynes/monetary theories were merely covers to fulfill maximum public debt saturation.

At that point the sword drops. Of course, by that time the engineers will already be in extradition proof nations with their tons of bullion safely tucked away.

http://www.zerohedge.com/article/2-trillion-3-year-funding-needs-piigs-imf-helpless-do-anything-sit-back-and-watch

 

Mon, 03/22/2010 – 14:44 | 272448 Mako

Life is a series of cycles.  You had inflation that ranged from the lowest 5.5% to all they way up to nearly 15% during this cycle until 2009 since 1944… see Federal Reserve Z1.  After inflation comes deflation.

Sorry but credit is not hyperinflating, it’s eroding before our eyes… negative for 3 quarters straight… you are already in a death spiral.

The idiot that thinks you can hyperinflate out of debt is a moron.   The current US system is $52.7T down from $52.9T from Q3 to Q4.

It’s all based on all you upright monkeys expanding the credit system or money supply.   The problem is upright monkeys do not have unlimited power to supply the demand or meet the demand.

Credit creation has gone negative for the 3rd quarter in a row, it’s over folks.

 

Mon, 03/22/2010 – 14:46 | 272467 SWRichmond

mako,

The idiot that thinks you can hyperinflate out debt is a moron.

Hyperinflation is never a deliberate act.  Hyperinflation is not merely really bad inflation, it is a currency crisis brought on by a complete lack of faith in a sovereign host nation’s ability to service its sovereign debt.  But you already knew that.

  • What happens to tax revenues during a persistent deflation?
  • How does US gov service debt during a persistent deflation?
  • As the global deflation persists, what is the source of capital for US sovereign borrowing?
  • As the demand for sovereign borrowing increases, what happens to interest rates?
  • As increasing demand for sovereign borrowing globally crowds out productive investment, what happens to productive economic activity, and to tax revenues?
  • How was the most recent persistent deflation fought by the US gov?

You’ve been reading too much Shedlock.

 

Mon, 03/22/2010 – 14:57 | 272469 Mako

Like you suspect I do mostly agree with you.

I disagree with the hedge fund that wrote those words.  It always ends up destroying the system, which is credit.   Currency is only now a portion of the credit system.   The hedge fund doesn’t write what happens after any huge bounce like he is suggesting… which could in this case be hyperdeflationary to zero…. that is if nukes are used.

The author seems to indicate that there is a way out, and large spikes will be met with even further large spikes down.   Whether or not something is then priced in dollars or cowpaddies is hard to say.

The use of what we call “credit” is not hyperinflating and I doubt you will really see significant inflation for the rest of my lifetime.  What we are witnessing is system unable to expand yet needs to expand to survive but I can see me and you are basically on the same page.

http://www.zerohedge.com/article/blown-commodity-hedge-fund-has-some-wise-parting-words-great-flation-debate

 

 

 

Sat, 05/22/2010 – 23:20 | 368217 Mako

What is there to understand about gold?  It’s a chemical element with an atomic number of 79, it’s shiny yellow in appearance and is very malleable.

People that don’t understand that credit is what has provide you with your way of life and it’s about to go the way of the dinosaur are the craziest people, people that don’t understand the a system based on exponential growth is unsustainable are just plain dumb.

There will be millions of people in India with gold in their pocket starving to death by the time this is all over with.  You could double their gold holdings and it would stil happen.  The system could be based on grains of dirt and eventually the system would run out of dirt and people would be starving to death.

You could times the world’s gold supply times 1000 and the system would still collapse and people will still die.

Sun, 05/23/2010 – 07:20 | 368423 blindfaith

boy oh boy, thanks a lot…now you have the baby crying.

Sun, 05/23/2010 – 08:23 | 368448 ColonelCooper

Nothing like a steaming bowl of Mako to go with your morning coffee.  Too bad he’s probably right.

Sun, 05/23/2010 – 10:33 | 368542 Hulk

He’s correct. What we are experiencing right now are the birth pangs of the crisis

http://www.zerohedge.com/article/seth-klarman-more-worried-about-world-ever-redux

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thu, 05/13/2010 – 10:07 | 348911 Mako

No he does not get it… very few do.

Eliminate spending at the country level right now and the system instantly collapses.  The governments are all that is left.

It’s going to happen anyway but to say that’s a solution is kind of laughable.

There is no out, there is no solution you are going to happy with, the solution is collapse, just like it always does.  The UK can do anything you want them to do and they will still collapse, this book was written before you were even born.

There is no out in this system, there is no long-term in this system.   The US system is $52.5T, what is interesting is it was $52.8T.   Now this quarter interest is owed, how do you pay interest on $52.5T when the amount of new debt is negative?  Yep, you don’t service the amount, what happens… system starts to collapse.

No, he doesn’t get it because if he thinks there is an out by cutting spending he is dreaming.

There is no paying abck $52.5T of the system, you are either generating enough new credit like in 2007 at a rate of $4.7T annualized or the system starts to collapse… you remove the federal government right now… the system would be short $2T just for this year alone.

Thu, 05/13/2010 – 10:29 | 348993 mdtrader

Of course you know best. lol!

Thu, 05/13/2010 – 14:05 | 349593 stewie

Well from what I understand about the functioning of the monetary system, he is right.  Maybe you care to explain why your find his comment so funny?

http://www.zerohedge.com/article/broken-cable-gbp-pounded-rush-unwind-global-carry-trade

 

 

 

 

Tue, 06/29/2010 – 17:19 | 442782 Cursive

@mako

OK, I read your reply on the other thread.  Thanks for that.  Now my question is, what system do you propose that we follow to avoid these problems in the future?  Are you looking for interest-free money and no reserve lending?  Can you give us an idea of the better mousetrap?

Tue, 06/29/2010 – 17:35 | 442801 Mako

It’s choice.  Sometimes we have no ideal choices.

This system is a system based on people taking more than they put in ie the miracle of compounding interest, the end result is going to be the same each and every time.   Of course, this is the easiest system to implement which is the path of least resistance.

Any system without interest will not be ideal so it will be rejected by most since you will no longer be getting what you want and you will be lucky to get what you need.

It’s a choice, but if you are going to pick the present choice, you can’t bitch about the eventual outcome.   Or you can bitch, I can laugh.

Any system based absent interest will lead to no or little growth but without the balloon payment at the end.  My bet is greed will rule and humans will continue the fraud on themselves and blame everyone and everything but the reason why they are actually at this point.

This all looks familar because all this has already happened countless times.  What is the difference between now and 1929?  Nothing really but immaterial details.  The system failed to expand, game over.

“Neo: Are you saying I have to choose whether Trinity lives or dies?
The Oracle: No. You’ve already made the choice, now you have to understand it.”

“this will be the sixth time we have destroyed it, and we have become exceedingly efficient at it.” – The Architect

http://www.zerohedge.com/article/guest-post-original-dollar-crisis-and-how-it-led-todays-crisis-part-1

 

 

 

Mon, 06/28/2010 – 13:18 | 438993 Mako

“Math is the same”

Yet you have yet to figure it out, instead you create a delusional world of your own making.

“You just want to die.”

Can’t say I want to die, but it is going to happen, nutbags like you will be kiling yourself for delusions by the time this all over with.   The fireworks are going to be great.

Your delusions are so deeply buried in your, you will fight for them, which is why you had to make up stuff you said I said.  I said the market sets rates, you said the Fed does.

“The Matrix is a system, Neo. That system is our enemy. But when you’re inside, you look around, what do you see? Businessmen, teachers, lawyers, carpenters. The very minds of the people we are trying to save. But until we do, these people are still a part of that system and that makes them our enemy. You have to understand, most of these people are not ready to be unplugged. And many of them are so inured, so hopelessly dependent on the system, that they will fight to protect it”  –Morpheus

You are dependent as are about 7 billion, unfortunately or fortunately Kansas is going bye-bye.

http://www.zerohedge.com/article/rick-santelli-implies-liesman-communist-almost-makes-cnbc-head-economist-cry-latest-cnbc-pay

 

 

 

 

 

Sun, 07/11/2010 – 21:17 | 463693 Mako

You have it right on the mark.  It’s really simple, what you are seeing now is “noise” and will be used to pass the blame.

The excuse: It wasn’t the foundation of the system you see, it’s was a few bad apples making loans or creating derivatives, or (insert excuse here).

Nice post.

http://www.zerohedge.com/article/financial-con-decade-explained-so-simply-even-congressman-will-get-it?page=2

 

 

 

 

Tue, 07/20/2010 – 15:35 | 479344 Mako

Food production will be the last to go, just like last time.

Farmers quit in the 30s, the ones in debt lost the farm, the only thing that helped was almost 45% of Americans were farmers back then.

Lack of credit creation>lack of demand = shut the farm down

In Europe the dumped grain out at sea in the false hope it would raise prices.  Delusional people working with desperation.   America somewhat missed a true bottom for Europeans got tired of going hungry and hired Hilter to put people out their misery.

They don’t call it a death spiral for nothing.  I figure a billion or two are going to have to go right at the beginning and probably more after that over a longer period of time.

Tue, 07/20/2010 – 15:51 | 479416 trav7777

There is no reason for any of this to happen.  Not a good one anyway.  It may come to pass, but I would rather see another genocide of the banker clan, good riddance.

Billions killed over math and a balance sheet?  Fuck that.

Tue, 07/20/2010 – 16:00 | 479433 Mako

It sucks, can’t disagree with you. I disagree with you slightly though.

I consider virtually all humans as Bankers.  Taking more than they put in.

We have other choices, humans continue to pick the same choice, well, the final result is going to be the same.

Tue, 07/20/2010 – 18:41 | 479923 WaterWings

+1

Tue, 07/20/2010 – 20:29 | 480063 Jendrzejczyk

Mako,

You always scare the piss out of me and I thank you.

http://www.zerohedge.com/article/michigan-says-enough-fed-takes-matters-own-hands-it-starts-using-own-currencyand-gold?page=1

 

 

 

 

Tue, 11/02/2010 – 10:30 | 693053 Walter_Sobchak

Yes but this time when it collapses the currency will collapse too due to lack of faith.  So hyperinflation is still in the cards.

Tue, 11/02/2010 – 10:40 | 693072 Mako

That is not hyperinflation.  You use credit as money, credit will not be hyperinflating.

People can turn their backs on anything they want regardless of the number of items in circulation.

Tue, 11/02/2010 – 10:42 | 693095 Walter_Sobchak

Hyperinflation=loss of faith in currency.  People will still trade, just not in dollars.

Tue, 11/02/2010 – 10:45 | 693103 Mako

Inflation is the increase of the money supply.

Faith = faith

One is a fact, the other is a human emotion.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~

If you don’t have inflation of the money supply ie credit, you won’t have the interest to pay off the prior money supply created.  Without inflation, you collapse and liquidate… this is what happens when you attach interest to your money supply.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Tue, 11/02/2010 – 11:45 | 693323 jdrose1985

Weimar currency was the “papiermark”, literally an economy awash in paper notes. Government deficits were printed and spent into the economy.

In todays economy money is loaned into existence by commerce.

http://www.zerohedge.com/article/guest-post-suicide-painless

 

 

finished  04/26/2015

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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